Why did MJ need so much help...

[TheMan]

Yeah right...how many did he win without pippen?

You’re trolling its the same thing that LeBron stans do when they say he won without a single all star in 2016

Bulls had like 55 wins without him in ‘94 and almost made the finals...


1-9

Almost made the Finals? You dimwit, they didn't even make the Conference Finals Hey, Houston had a great season this year, they almost made the Finals!

Idiot

[And1AllDay]

Lowest production from #2 and #3 for playoff run (in order)
[COLOR="Green"]Top tier*
1994 Hakeem: 27.6 ppg*
2013 LeBron: 28.0 ppg * [/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Middle tier
2011 Dirk: 30.8 ppg
1991 Jordan: 31.0 ppg
2004 Billups: 31.3 ppg
1993 Jordan: 31.8 ppg
[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Bottom tier
1998 Jordan: 32.4 ppg
1996 Jordan: 32.5 ppg
2009 Kobe: 33.2 ppg
2010 Kobe: 33.3 ppg[/COLOR]

*Only FMVPs to carry #2 and #3 combined 28.0 ppg or under

Good question

At best his was 4th best scoring load carry

anyone?

[3ball]

anyone?

Lebron only needed to average 22 ppg to win the ECF

So who cares about stats needed to win a weak East

The worst help that Lebron won a Finals with was Wade's 20/5/5 on 48% (peak Pippen numbers) in the 2013 Finals

And his cast saved him from an 0-3 deficit while he averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games.. it was 2011 all over again, but Ray saved him this time.

anyone?

PPG, APG, FG% and GameScore in Eastern Conference Playoffs


2007... 25.8.. 8.3.. 43.4%.. 22.2 gmsc
2011... 26.0.. 5.5.. 46.0%.. 21.7 gmsc
2012... 30.8.. 5.1.. 50.8%.. 24.3 gmsc
2013... 26.2.. 6.4.. 51.4%.. 21.9 gmsc
2014... 27.1.. 5.0.. 56.2%.. 22.7 gmsc
2015... 27.6.. 8.3.. 42.8%.. 20.6 gmsc
2016... 24.6.. 7.0.. 54.6%.. 21.8 gmsc

1991... 31.1.. 7.1.. 51.0%.. 26.6 gmsc
1992... 34.0.. 5.5.. 48.9%.. 24.8 gmsc
1993... 32.8.. 5.8.. 45.6%.. 24.6 gmsc
1996... 32.3.. 4.1.. 47.9%.. 23.7 gmsc
1997... 30.5.. 4.2.. 45.6%.. 21.7 gmsc
1998... 31.9.. 4.0.. 47.8%.. 22.5 gmsc



MJ with higher gamescores and PPG... and nearly the same assists with greater TEAM assists/winning..

MJ simply had to do more

[Real14]

Because he want the easy way out, thank God Lebron was more competitive.

[3ball]

Because he want the easy way out, thank God Lebron was more competitive.

What's the tougher path:

1) developing favorite status over several years

2) landing on 2 different teams favored to win it all in Year 1

[egokiller]

Why did MJ do more than Lebron with less? Why did he not allow others to win FMVP during his finals appearances unlike lebron who allowed it 6 times?

Yikes!

[Real14]

What's the tougher path:

1) developing favorite status over several years

2) landing on 2 different teams favored to win it all in Year 1

Lebron's teams weren't stacked tho, just a few good players.

[Real14]

Why did MJ do more than Lebron with less? Why did he not allow others to win FMVP during his finals appearances unlike lebron who allowed it 6 times?

Yikes!

Jordan had easy competition tho in the finals including a 6 foot and a 1/2 point guard named Payton.

[3ball]

Lebron's teams weren't stacked tho, just a few good players.

The Heat had 4 HOF (lebron, wade, bosh, allen)

plus battier, birdman, haslem, mike miller, and other solid role players.

Lebron's teams weren't stacked tho, just a few good players.

in 2010, Wade was #2 in PER, VORP, BPM, and WS/48

so he was the #2 player in the league (the best help possible)… it's like MJ teaming up with Magic or Larry in the 80's

so how did your goat get the best help possible, but proceed to be an underdog or lose for 6 of the next 7 years?..

goat + best help possible = dominant winning/favorite status, not perennial loser/underdog...

Lebron teaming up with Wade/Bosh is like MJ teaming up with Magic/McHale

[egokiller]

Jordan had easy competition tho in the finals including a 6 foot and a 1/2 point guard named Payton.

I though he was 6

[Rico2016]

Lebron's teams weren't stacked tho, just a few good players.

Pippen was the Bulls primary defender, playmaker, and rebounder. It's no surprise he did not ALSO average 25-30. Leading your team as the primary anchor on defense, primary playmaker, primary rebounder, AND primary scorer? Pippen had 3 of 4 but only 1 man has ever done them all and his name is LeBron James.

[3ball]

Pippen was the Bulls primary defender

DPOY VOTING

1988.... MJ (1st).... Pip (none)
1989.... MJ (5th).... Pip (none)
1990.... MJ (5th).... Pip (none)
1991.... MJ (7th).... Pip (7th)
1992.... MJ (3rd).... Pip (3rd)
1993.... MJ (2nd)... Pip (none)
1996.... MJ (5th).... Pip (2nd)
1997.... MJ (5th).... Pip (4th)
1998.... MJ (4th).... Pip (9th)

^^^^ MJ was clearly considered the better defender AT THE TIME, and Pippen's defensive capabilities have been vastly overrated by revisionist historians since... ... the dpoy voting and various other sources (like the NBA) confirm the actual sentiment at the time (that MJ was the Bulls' best defender)

Pippen was never the primary defender on the opponent's best scorer - that was MJ's job, aka Drexler, Miller, Payton, Magic, Tim Hardaway and more.

the reason for the revisionist history is simple: when new fans (including media) first heard about MJ's 6 rings, they looked up his roster and didn't see the star-laden cast they expected, or great stats from a sidekick.... so they concluded that Pippen's defense offset the lack of star power or good offensive stats - but this is simply ignorance about what was actually happening at the time

the reality is that the 1st three-peat Bulls were only ranked 7th defensively, so many guys had better defensive help than MJ, including Clyde's Blazers and many of Lebron's teams

Pippen was the primary playmaker and rebounder.

Grant or Rodman were the rebounders and MJ averaged more apg in 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside Pippen, while assisting on the most Bulls field goals for both 3-peats (see the stats below)

primary playmaker

Assist Percentage 1991-1993 Playoffs:

Jordan: [COLOR="Red"]31.1%[/COLOR]
Pippen: [COLOR="Red"]23.3%[/COLOR]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...yoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...yoffs_advanced


Assist Percentage 1996-1998 Playoffs:

Jordan: [COLOR="Red"]22.3%[/COLOR]
Pippen: [COLOR="Red"]22.0%[/COLOR]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...yoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...yoffs_advanced

It's no surprise he did not ALSO average 25-30.

Pippen's max capacity is 22.0 ppg and 5.6 apg as the #1 option in 1994, which was less production than his high alongside MJ (21.0 and 7.0 apg)

So he wasn't capable of 25+ ppg.. that's preposterous - the guy had zero moves and couldn't shoot worth a lick from any

[RealSkipBayless]

Lebron's teams were so stacked with help that the second he left they all collapsed.

[egokiller]

Lebron's teams were so stacked with help that the second he left they all collapsed.

Imagine being so cancerous that even stacked teams could no longer be effective after he left. Some cancers just can

[Real14]

Lebron's teams were so stacked with help that the second he left they all collapsed.

Exactly. Cavs missed playoffs in 2011 and 2019, while Heat missed playoffs in 2015.