Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 83
  1. #16
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    that ghoulash joint
    Posts
    31,944

    Default Re: Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

    .
    Flawless form





    Anyone that thinks MJ couldn't have shot 6 threes per game at 40%, if he WANTED to, simply doesn't know the game of basketball

  2. #17
    NBA Legend AirBonner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    15,658

    Default Re: Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

    Quote Originally Posted by WayOfWade
    He channeled his inner curry
    so he let a role player on his team get finals mvp

  3. #18
    Seething... ClipperRevival's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    7,974

    Default Re: Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball
    .
    Flawless form





    Anyone that thinks MJ couldn't have shot 6 threes per game at 40%, if he WANTED to, simply doesn't know the game of basketball
    I recently saw an interview where he was asked how he would've guarded himself and he said he would take away the drive and make him a jump shooter because shooting from the outside means you either make or miss the shot but if you drive you can either get off a high pct shot or create for others. MJ almost always preferred to attack if the opportunity was there rather than just settle for the jumper. It just wasn't in his DNA to settle when the opportunity to attack was there. So in that sense, he was so devastating at attacking that he was never destined to be a high volume, outside shooter. But I agree, if he would've seriously worked on his 3 pt game, he would've been a very good 3 pt shooter.

  4. #19
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer Smoke117's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    26,843

    Default Re: Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

    Seriously, though...Drexler was overhyped back then because he was also a good athletic sg like Jordan was...but he was never close to as good as he was. In fact, but this time, I thought Scottie was better than him. The Bulls had the two best players in the series...but the Blazers talent went deeper. Drexler was a great all around player...but Pippen was even better. Defensively Pippen was much better by this point and I don't think the 4 more points Drexler was putting up in the regular season OR in the finals (he outscored Pippen by 4 pts in both) was enough to put him over Scottie. Jordan was obviously by far the best player in that finals but here was Pippen and Drexler:

    Scottie Pippen: 20.8ppg 8.3rpg 7.7apg 1.5spg 0.7bpg .484%fg .786%ft .561%ts 102drating

    Clyde Drexler: 24.8ppg 7.8rpg 5.3apg 1.3spg 1.0bpg .407%fg .893%ft .522%ts 109drating

    Yeah they had different roles...but if you just threw Pippen on the Blazers and gave the Bulls Drexler...I'm pretty sure the the Blazers would benefit more than the Bulls. Scottie and Drexler actually have a lot in common as scorers, but Drexler actually ended up in the fast pace offense that would benefit them both. You don't need drating to say that in 1992 Pippen was on a different level defensively...that's just simply stating a fact. As good as Drexler was as an all around player too...Pippen was better. Scottie led this series in apg, was 2nd in rpg, and 3rd in ppg while being one of the 2 or 3 best defensive players in the series.

    My point is...that this series was really a top heavy team like the Bulls that had the two best players in the series vs a team that was much more talented overall. It was made out to be Jordan vs Drexler, but that was for drama...Drex wasn't even the 2nd best player in the series.

  5. #20
    Seething... ClipperRevival's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    7,974

    Default Re: Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball
    .
    Flawless form





    Anyone that thinks MJ couldn't have shot 6 threes per game at 40%, if he WANTED to, simply doesn't know the game of basketball
    MJ: "Not today son."

  6. #21
    Seething... ClipperRevival's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    7,974

    Default Re: Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke117
    Seriously, though...Drexler was overhyped back then because he was also a good athletic sg like Jordan was...but he was never close to as good as he was. In fact, but this time, I thought Scottie was better than him. The Bulls had the two best players in the series...but the Blazers talent went deeper. Drexler was a great all around player...but Pippen was even better. Defensively Pippen was much better by this point and I don't think the 4 more points Drexler was putting up in the regular season OR in the finals (he outscored Pippen by 4 pts in both) was enough to put him over Scottie. Jordan was obviously by far the best player in that finals but here was Pippen and Drexler:

    Scottie Pippen: 20.8ppg 8.3rpg 7.7apg 1.5spg 0.7bpg .484%fg .786%ft .561%ts 102drating

    Clyde Drexler: 24.8ppg 7.8rpg 5.3apg 1.3spg 1.0bpg .407%fg .893%ft .522%ts 109drating

    Yeah they had different roles...but if you just threw Pippen on the Blazers and gave the Bulls Drexler...I'm pretty sure the the Blazers would benefit more than the Bulls. Scottie and Drexler actually have a lot in common as scorers, but Drexler actually ended up in the fast pace offense that would benefit them both. You don't need drating to say that in 1992 Pippen was on a different level defensively...that's just simply stating a fact. As good as Drexler was as an all around player too...Pippen was better. Scottie led this series in apg, was 2nd in rpg, and 3rd in ppg while being one of the 2 or 3 best defensive players in the series.

    My point is...that this series was really a top heavy team like the Bulls that had the two best players in the series vs a team that was much more talented overall. It was made out to be Jordan vs Drexler, but that was for drama...Drex wasn't even the 2nd best player in the series.
    I kind of get what you're saying but Pip's scoring is overrated by some time and time again. He has proven that he tops out at 22 ppg even as "the man." Drexler peaked at 27 ppg. And he was clearly "the man" on a team that went to 2 finals and should've been 3. He was "the man" on what I feel is one of the better teams to never win a ring.

    Defense and playmaking ability, I give to Pip. But when you factor in Drexler's alpha dog scoring abilities, it's a close one. I always give the nod to "the man" in this scenario because there is nothing tougher in basketball than being a superstar that defenses focus in on. Pip had the GOAT scorer to be the 2nd fiddle.

    Again, I get your points so at this point, we are arguing over subjective rankings.

  7. #22
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    that ghoulash joint
    Posts
    31,944

    Default Re: Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke117

    Scottie Pippen: 102drating

    Clyde Drexler: 109drating
    Pippen was a better defender, but individual DRtg, DPBM and DWS can't be used to accurately compare defensive abilities - the CREATORS of the stat say so (shown below)... Here's the kind of thing these stats result in:


    [COLOR="Green"]Bird[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Career DPBM: 2.5[/COLOR]
    [COLOR="DarkRed"]Pippen Career DPBM: 2.4[/COLOR]

    [COLOR="Green"]Bird[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Career DRtg: 101[/COLOR]
    [COLOR="DarkRed"]Pippen Career DRtg: 102[/COLOR]


    I'm too lazy to do the math right now, but Bird had better DWS too.. So WHY does Bird have higher defensive stats than Pippen???... Because these stats are based on individual defensive rating (DRtg), which is based on TEAM performance.. This is from basketball-reference:


    "Out of necessity (due to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), [COLOR="Navy"]individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses[/COLOR], as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute."


    I've had to post the above definition many times to educate posters about DRtg, and subsequently DPBM and DWS... Now you know.. These stats results in hundreds if not thousands of similarly erroneous conclusions like Bird > Pippen defensively.

  8. #23
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    that ghoulash joint
    Posts
    31,944

    Default Re: Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke117

    Seriously, though...[COLOR="Red"]Drexler was overhyped back then[/COLOR] because he was also a good athletic sg like Jordan was...
    You didn't watch back then, and now 25 years after the fact you're trying to say Drexler was overhyped.

    [COLOR="Navy"]Here's what ACTUALLY happened at the time - Drexler wasn't hyped AT ALL - he was one of the more underrated, underhyped players of all time, then and now.. MJ, Magic, Bird, Dominique, Bernard, and the many other great players at the time overshadowed him big time.

    To anyone that actually watched back then - this is common knowledge - everyone knows Drexler is one of the most underhyped players of all time.
    [/COLOR]

    But you're just a young fool talking out of your ass, with no clue what you're talking about.


    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke117

    Scottie Pippen: 20.8ppg 8.3rpg 7.7apg 1.5spg 0.7bpg .484%fg .786%ft .561%ts 102drating

    [COLOR="Red"]Clyde Drexler: 24.8ppg 7.8rpg 5.3apg 1.3spg 1.0bpg .407%fg .893%ft .522%ts 109drating
    [/COLOR]

    Drexler was being guarded by Jordan - that's why he shot so bad.

    Also, Pippen's offense was FAR worse than Drexler's - it's not even close... You guys act like 4-5 ppg is just a little bit - that's A LOT.

    Drexler could actually SHOOT... Pippen's shot was broke as ****..


    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke117

    Drex wasn't even the 2nd best player in the series
    Bullshit - there isn't a single player, coach or analyst that would say Pippen > Drexler in 1992 - you're simply talking out of your ass.

    Drexler was runner up for MVP in 1992.
    Last edited by 3ball; 12-30-2015 at 03:44 AM.

  9. #24
    NBA rookie of the year
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    6,833

    Default Re: Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

    Quote Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
    What makes this performance even MORE absurd, along with most ATG performances of the past, is when you know the context behind them.

    Drexler for example: Prior to the finals this guy beasted throughout the playoffs, averaging ~27 PPG, 8 REB, 7 AST with gamelogs of 36/12/6 and 42/12/9. Just flat-out dominance and MVP level play. He meets up with Jordan, H2H on the biggest stage, and looks second tier. Not only in the finals for a championship and Finals MVP, but for summer practices during the Olympics.

    Drexler was unreal. One of the greatest perimeter players ever, a complete player who could do it ALL, and Jordan eviscerated him in every way imaginable.
    What's even more impressive is that he scored 35 despite sitting out 7:30 of the half. He legitimately could have had a 43+ point half and 65+ point game had he played more in the first half and not completely taken his foot off the gas in the second half.

  10. #25
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer Smoke117's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    26,843

    Default Re: Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

    Quote Originally Posted by ClipperRevival
    I kind of get what you're saying but Pip's scoring is overrated by some time and time again. He has proven that he tops out at 22 ppg even as "the man." Drexler peaked at 27 ppg. And he was clearly "the man" on a team that went to 2 finals and should've been 3. He was "the man" on what I feel is one of the better teams to never win a ring.

    Defense and playmaking ability, I give to Pip. But when you factor in Drexler's alpha dog scoring abilities, it's a close one. I always give the nod to "the man" in this scenario because there is nothing tougher in basketball than being a superstar that defenses focus in on. Pip had the GOAT scorer to be the 2nd fiddle.

    Again, I get your points so at this point, we are arguing over subjective rankings.
    Actually look at the pace of those teams or watch those Blazers compared to the 94 or 95 bulls...those Blazer teams Drexler was dropping 27ppg were some of the most up tempo teams in the league. The Bulls in 94 and 95 played a slow down, half court offense because that's what the triangle calls for. Scottie's best attributes as a scorer were always in the open court. He's a top 5 open court player as far as I'm concerned, but the Bulls triangle offense is built around precision and not opportunity which didn't allow him to fully utilize his scoring abilities. He could have easily been averaging 25+ on those 80s blazers teams during his prime.

    I've seen both Drexler and Pippen play a lot and Drexler isn't particularly better at anything scoring wise in relation to Pippen. He just ended up in a better situation to showcase his skills. In fact you could even say Pippen was a better scorer as he was actually a good post player...something Drexler never was. Neither guy was ever known for his jump shot, though I would give Drexler the slight advantage there overall. Either way...by 92 Drexler was already at the tail end of his prime with Pippen just entering his. A lot of that has to do that Drexler was an historically lazy player...that's probably what he's known for more than anything else...his laziness. He just didn't want to work at it.
    Last edited by Smoke117; 12-30-2015 at 04:01 AM.

  11. #26
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer Smoke117's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    26,843

    Default Re: Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

    I haven't read what you said 3ball...and I don't care. I also know how much it galls you to know that I'm not reading nor going to respond. I didn't give my opinion to get in a silly argument with you or suffer your nonsense about how Jordan carried historically untalented teams to championships.

  12. #27
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    that ghoulash joint
    Posts
    31,944

    Default Re: Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke117
    I haven't read what you said 3ball...and I don't care. I also know how much it galls you to know that I'm not reading nor going to respond. I didn't give my opinion to get in a silly argument with you or suffer your nonsense about how Jordan carried historically untalented teams to championships.
    You didn't watch back then, and now 25 years after the fact you're trying to say Drexler was overhyped.

    Here's what ACTUALLY happened at the time - Drexler wasn't hyped AT ALL - he was one of the more underrated, underhyped players of all time, then and now.. MJ, Magic, Bird, Dominique, Bernard, and the many other great players at the time overshadowed him big time.

    To anyone that actually watched back then - this is common knowledge - everyone knows Drexler is one of the most underhyped players of all time.

    But you're just a young fool talking out of your ass, with no clue what you're talking about.

  13. #28
    Seething... ClipperRevival's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    7,974

    Default Re: Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke117
    Actually look at the pace of those teams or watch those Blazers compared to the 94 or 95 bulls...those Blazer teams Drexler was dropping 27ppg were some of the most up tempo teams in the league. The Bulls in 94 and 95 played a slow down, half court offense because that's what the triangle calls for. Scottie's best attributes as a scorer were always in the open court. He's a top 5 open court player as far as I'm concerned, but the Bulls triangle offense is built around precision and not opportunity which didn't allow him to fully utilize his scoring abilities. He could have easily been averaging 25+ on those 80s blazers teams during his prime.
    Yeah, I am not going to get into this. I always say your talents warrant the amount of touches you get. Pip maxed at 22 ppg. It's not about pace or anything more than the fact that Pip simply didn't have that alpha dog scoring skills. If you feel that he did, fine, agree to disagree. But here's an interesting tidbit. MJ, at the age of 39, scored a 50+ point game. Pip's career high is like 46. How many times did Pip top 30 points in a game? 40? He just didn't have that take over a game type offensive game. He was a guy who got his mostly within the flow of an offense and not iso situations where he commanded a double. Again, if you feel that circumstances prevented him from scoring more, we will have to agree to disagree.

  14. #29
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer Smoke117's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    26,843

    Default Re: Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

    Also, 3ball...remember this: It was Scottie bringing the team back when they were down 15 at the beginning of the 4th quarter in game 6...not Michael. He was riding the pine and being a cheerleader till it got close and he smelled some glory.

  15. #30
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer 3ball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    that ghoulash joint
    Posts
    31,944

    Default Re: Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke117
    Also, 3ball...remember this: It was Scottie bringing the team back when they were down 15 at the beginning of the 4th quarter in game 6...not Michael. He was riding the pine and being a cheerleader till it got close and he smelled some glory.
    ou didn't watch back then, and now 25 years after the fact you're trying to say Drexler was overhyped.

    Here's what ACTUALLY happened at the time - Drexler wasn't hyped AT ALL - he was one of the more underrated, underhyped players of all time, then and now.. MJ, Magic, Bird, Dominique, Bernard, and the many other great players at the time overshadowed him big time.

    To anyone that actually watched back then - this is common knowledge - everyone knows Drexler is one of the most underhyped players of all time.

    But you're just a young fool talking out of your ass, with no clue what you're talking about.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •