NBA Finals: 2000-02 Diesel vs 1991-93 MJ

[Hands of Iron]

MJ

Shaq competition was a joke.. The real finals there happened in the west where Kobe performed better and dominated most of the game.. Kobe dominates tougher opponent (Spurs, Portland, Kings) while Shaq dominates weaker ones (Sixers, Nets).. To all people saying Shaq carried Kobe are idiot..

When you can collectively average 29/13/4 on 60% against Olajuwon, Mutombo and Wallace in the Finals and two of those series didnt even occur during your peak years, it sort of has a way of legitimizing you. Can't help that Eric Snow and Tayshaun Prince were just too much.

2000-Gm1: 43 pts, 19 reb, 4 ast, 3 blk, 21-31 FG (67.7%)
2000-Gm2: 40 pts, 24 reb, 4 ast, 3 blk, 11-18 FG (61.1%)
2000-Gm3: 33 pts, 13 reb, 1 ast, 2 blk, 15-24 FG (62.5%)
2000-Gm4: 36 pts, 21 reb, 1 ast, 2 blk, 13-25 FG (52.0%)
2000-Gm5: 35 pts, 11 reb, 3 ast, 2 blk, 17-27 FG (62.9%)
2000-Gm6: 41 pts, 12 reb, 1 ast, 4 blk, 19-32 FG (59.3%)

2001-Gm1: 44 pts, 20 reb, 5 ast, 0 blk, 17-28 FG (60.7%)
2001-Gm2: 28 pts, 20 reb, 9 ast, 8 blk, 12-19 FG (63.1%)
2001-Gm3: 30 pts, 12 reb, 3 ast, 4 blk, 11-20 FG (55.0%)
2001-Gm4: 34 pts, 14 reb, 5 ast, 0 blk, 13-25 FG (52.0%)
2001-Gm5: 29 pts, 13 reb, 2 ast, 5 blk, 10-18 FG (55.5%)

2002-Gm1: 36 pts, 16 reb, 1 ast, 4 blk, 12-22 FG (54.5%)
2002-Gm2: 40 pts, 12 reb, 8 ast, 1 blk, 14-23 FG (60.8%)
2002-Gm3: 35 pts, 11 reb, 2 ast, 4 blk, 12-19 FG (63.1%)
2002-Gm4: 34 pts, 10 reb, 4 ast, 2 blk, 12-20 FG (60.0%)


God damn, son.

[KG215]

Watching game one of the '91 Finals on Youtube right now and, good night.....Bill Cartwright was terrible.

Anyway, someone noted Jordan's game two performance but, even in a loss, he was really good in game one, too. Only thing I've noticed is that he had a few really bad turnovers; like when he had Vlade guarding him after a switch on the perimeter, tried to hit Vlade with an in-and-out dribble, and Divac stripped Jordan. Thought that was hilarious.

It's interesting to see that the Lakers kept it so close throughout the first half and third quarter since Magic was really quiet until he hit back-to-back threes in the final minute of the third quarter. But Worthy, Perkins, and Divac killed it in the first half. Then you really see just how important Magic was to the team the first few minutes of the 4th quarter. Dunleavy (yes, Mike Dunleavy coached in an NBA Finals) started the fourth with Magic on the bench and the Lakers up 75-68. The Bulls started the third with a 10-0 run to take the lead. Jordan (who else?) sparked the run scoring like 6 or 8 of the points. I'd rewind to make sure, but I've got class in 30 minutes and I want to see the rest of the game before I have to leave.

[KG215]

Also, gotta love the Kobe stans coming in yet another thread to downplay Shaq. So predictable.

[caliman]

And you just proved my point. When Jordan was in the Finals, there was no doubt about him winning.

Revisionist history at its finest.

The Lakers may have been bigger favorites than the Bulls ever were. I can't recall anyone picking Indiana, Philly or Jersey to win the series, but quite a few picked the Lakers, Blazers and Suns.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Shaq had way less help. The 2001 Lakers are the least stacked when it comes to historically good dominant teams. Fisher was their 3rd best player in the playoffs.

[tpols]

Shaq had way less help. The 2001 Lakers are the least stacked when it comes to historically good dominant teams. Fisher was their 3rd best player in the playoffs.

[jstern]

Why all the hate for Shaq from Laker fans?

Jordan - comparable/better production, more able to raise his game on command when needed (see: game 1 of the '92 Finals, game 4 of the '93 Finals, game 2 of the '91 Finals), provided all the 4th quarter and clutch heroics that Shaq needed Kobe for, was not a liability in any way (such as FT shooting), and faced far better teams. He also had expended way more energy defensively, having to guard Magic/Scott, Majerle/KJ, and Drexler/Porter, which was worlds better than the offensive scrubs Shaq guarded in the Finals. Jordan had better intangibles, too.

More than the numbers, though, you have to realize how Jordan completely imposed his will on every Finals series:

- In a must-win game 2 vs. LA in Chicago after an opening loss, he plays perhaps the best Finals game of all time with 33 pts/7 reb/13 ast on 15-18 FG, including 13 consecutive made FG's capped off by "the move."

- In game 1 of the '92 Finals, after media talk about how Clyde is on the same level as Jordan, he comes out and demolishes the Blazers for 35 first half points on like 14-19 FG, including an NBA record 6 threes in the half. He does this despite sitting out 7:00 of the half. Could have easily been a 42+ point half with how on fire he was. On the biggest stage. Against his main rival. All while neutralizing Drexler defensively. Cruises in the second half in a Bulls romp and finishes with 39 pts/11 ast.

- Averages 41/9/6+/51% FG vs. Phoenix and pours in 55 points in game 4 with Phoenix having a chance to tie the series. Scores all of Chicago's 14 fourth quarter points in the clinching game 6 before Paxson's jumper to seal it. On top of all this, he averaged nearly 46 mpg this series. Superhuman stamina.

That said, three-peat Shaq was beast, and it's definitely close. He's without a doubt the second greatest Finals performer of all time.

Pretty good. Reminded me of how Jordan just stepped thinks up at will, and that gave him the edge.

Shaq was absolutely unstoppable though. Miss those times.

[KG215]

Why all the hate for Shaq from Laker fans?

They're not real Lakers fans; they're Kobe stans.

[SilkkTheShocker]

It was Shaq/Kobe and role players. They were more talent the year before but Kobe improving made up for anything they lost.

[KG215]

Wow, didn't realize Jordan missed a long 2-point pull-up jumper in the final 5 seconds that would've given the Bulls a 93-92 lead and potentially a game one win. The ball went halfway down become popping out, too.

Could you imagine if ISH existed at the time? There'd be all sorts of overreaction threads about how Jordan choked (despite going for 36-8-12-3 on 14/24 shooting) and how the Bulls and Jordan wouldn't ever win a championship.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Kobe was the closer.

Anyone who watched ball back then knows this.The 4th quarter was all him.

Thats the only knock on Shaq other than his laughable pick and roll defense

[jstern]

Kobe was the closer.

Anyone who watched ball back then knows this.The 4th quarter was all him.

Thats the only knock on Shaq other than his laughable pick and roll defense

Are you sure? Cause I seem to remember O'Neil making most of his free throws. And if he shoots it at 50% than it's amazing that the opponent would rather give up a point on ever possession which is like shooting 50% from the field and put their guys into foul trouble, than to actually risk Shaq scoring every time. That's how dominant he was.

I'm checking the game's play by play on basketball-reference and Shaq was either shooting one out of two or 2 for 2. Saw Kobe I think under a minute getting fouled twice, and going 1 for 2 both times. Not very clutch.

And right now I'm in Game 3 against NJ and with the Lakers up by 4 the closer missed two free throws with 42 seconds left to put the Nets away.

I see Shaq scoring the most points during the final minutes.

No play by play for the year 2000.

[Hands of Iron]

Kobe was the closer.

Anyone who watched ball back then knows this.The 4th quarter was all him.

Thats the only knock on Shaq other than his laughable pick and roll defense

Anyone who watched ball back then also knows this has become increasingly overblown over time as yet another way to attempt to diminish an all-time great. Not as if it could ever close to matching Shaq's impact on the game over the duration even if completely true.

Also ironic Shaq is tied with himself for most Pts per 4th Qrt in a Finals over the last couple decades.

[swi7ch]

MJ would win because the GOAT never lost in the Finals in his decade.

Shaq can't even beat the lowly Pistons with Kobe, Malone, Payton, and Phil Jackson.

[Odinn]

MJ would win because the GOAT never lost in the Finals in his decade.

Shaq can't even beat the lowly Pistons with Kobe, Malone, Payton, and Phil Jackson.

Another proven idiot.