Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Kobe Bryant

[magnax1]

Thorpe made one All-Star game his entire career. he had one 20 pt season before going to Houston, then averaged 17 for 4 straight years. It isn't like that is a big falloff.

I don't really think how many all star teams he made is relevant. He was a good player, that suffered from the way Hakeem played under Rudy T. That was also reversed immediately when he was traded to Portland. Vernon Maxwell also saw a similar drop off.

[305Baller]

Thorpe was Kurt Thomas-like.

[tontoz]

I don't really think how many all star teams he made is relevant. He was a good player, that suffered from the way Hakeem played under Rudy T. That was also reversed immediately when he was traded to Portland. Vernon Maxwell also saw a similar drop off.

LOL Thorpe didn't do crap after he left Houston. Maxwell had his highest scoring years in Houston. Maxwell wasn't doing crap with the Spurs before he got traded. His scoring went up immediately with Houston.

Your memory sucks.

[Round Mound]

Another Joke Question? Hakeem by far

Better Scorer (Higher FG% on High PPG, see play-Offs too)
Better Rebounder
More Skilled "Compared to Position"
Much Better Defender
Superior 1 on 1 Defense
Superior Help Defense
Superior Floor Defense

Passing, FT Shooting and Far Range shooting might be the only things Kobe was Better at, maybe not even passing

[Duncan21formvp]

Who's the better franchise player?

Hakeem easily. Hakeem took a franchise that never won anything to multiple titles. Kobe had to go to a franchise that was known for winning in order to win (24 finals and 11 titles before Kobe ever arrived)

[Anaximandro1]

Hakeem Olajuwon by far

[NumberSix]

Is this a friggin' joke?

How retarded would you have to be to pick Kobe? He's good, but he ain't in Hakeem's league.

[Xiao Yao You]

Hakeem and Akeem>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe

[jlauber]

Hakeem and Bird are way over-rated on this forum.

The reality...

8. Kobe
9. Bird
10. Hakeem or Moses


How anyone can rank Hakeem in their top-5 is a complete joke, and he was a borderline top-10 player all-time. How do I know this? Hakeem won ONE MVP, in a season in which MJ took a vacation. He had ONE other season, as the SECOND best player in the eyes of the MVP voters. And he had TWO more seasons as a Top-4 player. The man was not even a top-TEN player in nearly HALF of his 18 season career. And yet some consider him a top-FIVE player...ALL-TIME?????

The reality was, Hakeem outplayed Ewing in a seven game series, and in which his 58-24 Rockets (Hakeem's BEST record BTW) beat Ewing's 56-26 Knicks in that seven game series. His other claim to fame was badly outplaying Robinson in the '95 playoffs (in four of their six games.) That was IT. He was outplayed by a young Shaq (whose teammates shrunk, while Hakeem's elevated their play) in the '95 Finals.

The rest of his career, Hakeem played on 45-50 win teams (only FOUR teams that even won 50 games, and NONE that won 60.) And, how can anyone ignore this FACT...Hakeem anchored EIGHT teams that were BLOWN AWAY in the FIRST ROUND. Yes, EIGHT of his 15 playoff teams not only lost in the FIRST ROUND, they were crushed in ALL of them.

And, of course, no one mentions a more prime Shaq just abusing Hakeem. Or a 38 and 39 year old Kareem, in TEN STRAIGHT games, averaging 31.8 ppg on .630 shooting against Hakeem. Or a 38-42 year old Kareem outscoring a 23-26 year old Hakeem in their 23 H2H games, and outshooting him by a staggering .610 to .512 margin. And PLEASE, don't give me Hakeem's '86 WCF's against the 39 year old Kareem's Lakers. The Rockets coach finally accepted the fact that Hakeem was helpless in guarding Kareem, and not only had Sampson guarding the 39 year old Kareem, he had Hakeem helping him do so. And, a much more prime Hakeem still only barely outscored, outshot, and outrebounded the VERY OLD Kareem in that series.

I get a kick out of those that call Hakeem a great defensive center, too. A young Shaq not only averaged 28 ppg against him, but on a sensational .595 FG%. And a more prime Shaq averaged 29 ppg on him a couple of years later (while holding Hakeem to 13 ppg on .426 shooting.) And once again, a 38 and 39 year old Kareem was routinely dumping 30+ point games, with THREE of over 40+, and ALL on mind-boggling FG%'s.

Even Robinson, who gets ripped for playing poorly against Hakeem in their 6 game playoff series, pretty much was, at the very least, the equal of Hakeem in their remaining 42 H2H games (with Robinson's team winning 30 of them.)

Nor do the Hakeem-worshipers EVER mention that in their CAREER H2H's, BOTH in the regular season, AND post-season, Shaq wasthe MUCH more DOMINANT player.

Great shot-blocker? Again, Hakeem was not even the best shot-blocker of HIS era. "Cement Shoes" Eaton was EASILY a better shot-blocker.

Scoring? How many scoring titles did Hakeem win in his career? In fact, in how many was even CLOSE to winning a scoring title?

FG%? Hakeem was nothing more than ordinary in that regard, for a center, in HIS era. His highest FG% season was .534. BUT, that came in his ROOKIE season, in an NBA which had the HIGHEST FG% in it's HISTORY! There were 30-52 teams shooting .504 back then, and the entire Laker team shot .548 that season.

Rebounding? Hakeem barely won TWO rebounding titles, and again, in 18 seasons. In fact, when he was paired up with an equally aged 6-6 Charles Barkley, Barkley POUNDED his teammate on the glass by over FOUR per GAME.


And BTW, Hakeem shot .500, .483 and .483 in his three Finals. And again, in 15 post-seasons, and in 18 total seasons.

As for Bird. He carried SEVEN teams with HCA down in flames, and generally shot poorly in nearly all of them. He had post-seasons of .450, .444, .427, .422, and even .408, and in leagues that generally shot about .485 on average. In his five Finals he shot .488, .484, .449, .445, and even .419. He wasn't even the best player on HIS team in one of three titles in those Finals. And overall, in his five Finals, he wasn't even the second best player on the floor (or perhaps even the third best player) in three of them. In his best statistical season, in 87-88, he crumbled horribly against the Pistons, shooting .351 in that series.

Kobe had his share of holes too, but FIVE rings in SEVEN Finals, as well as scoring titles, and even spectacular scoring games. And his career, overall, is better than either Bird's, or Hakeem's.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Hakeem- top 10 lock
Bryant- 11-15
Hakeem easily, without thinking twice

[iDefend5]

This is a closer argument than most people think.

[blablabla]

kobe

[Haymaker]

He was outplayed by a young Shaq (whose teammates shrunk, while Hakeem's elevated their play) in the '95 Finals.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Nothing against Kobe, but Hakeem was just a better player. Hakeem is probably the best player of the past 25-30 years other than Jordan, imo. He could carry your offense in the post, create looks for the shooters with his passing out of double teams, play effectively 15-20 feet from the basket if necessary by facing up and shooting or driving, and his defense was unbelievable. Whether it was defending screen/rolls, blocking shots or even later, his post defense. He was the best defensive player of the past 30 years, imo. His ability late in games offensively was rivaled only by Kareem among centers, and very few have had the ability to raise their play so consistently in big games, and this started even early in Hakeem's career(see '86-'88 playoffs).

I go back and forth on some players, but while both Hakeem and Kobe are the best of the best, I really can't see a convincing argument to make me change my mind on this one. It's clear enough to me.

Past his peak, but still an all star, and he basically ended up spotting up on more then half the possessions on that team. Once Tomjanavich got there and started running almost exclusively through Hakeem you saw the rest of the teams production dip pretty dramatically too (Otis Thorpe being the prime example, who was an all star. Kenny and Vernon also had their production drop) It was the right thing to do, but it does say something about Hakeem.

Aside from Drexler and Barkley, you can throw Sampson in there for his first 2 years at least. But Hakeem did have the least help of any top 10 player for most of his prime or near-prime years, imo.

Either way, I don't think the other player's production dropping says much at all because as you said, going through Hakeem more was the right thing to do. The other players were put in the proper roles for them to win. Of course more shots for Hakeem will mean less shots for the others.

I'm not sure how many other players could've been as successful with everything going through them as much as Hakeem during those years which was pretty much Hakeem in the post and then space the floor with the other 4, and he got those shooters great looks.

Horry had by far his best seasons alongside Hakeem and Drexler played his best basketball since '92 after being traded to Houston in '95.

Granted, having an offense revolve around you that much should put numbers in perspective, but I don't think numbers should be the primary factor when judging a player of Hakeem's caliber.

Hakeem and Bird are way over-rated on this forum.

The reality...

8. Kobe
9. Bird
10. Hakeem or Moses

No. Hakeem is underrated if anything, and Bird is rated correctly(not on your list, but on most lists, you severely underrate him).

Hakeem was a significantly better player than Moses. Better scorer, much much better passer whose teammates benefited from him more and vastly superior defensive player. The only thing Moses did better was rebound, Hakeem was clearly better at everything else.

And to top it off, Hakeem won twice as many rings(with much less help) and was generally a much more impressive playoff performer.

Moses has no argument over Hakeem.

How anyone can rank Hakeem in their top-5 is a complete joke, and he was a borderline top-10 player all-time. How do I know this? Hakeem won ONE MVP, in a season in which MJ took a vacation. He had ONE other season, as the SECOND best player in the eyes of the MVP voters. And he had TWO more seasons as a Top-4 player. The man was not even a top-TEN player in nearly HALF of his 18 season career. And yet some consider him a top-FIVE player...ALL-TIME?????

MVP voting does not define best players. Funny how you rip it when it hurts Wilt, but cling to it here. Hakeem was quite clearly a top 10 player every season from '86-'97. If you disagree, then try naming 10 better players in some of those seasons. Only 1 you can make a case for is '91 and only because Hakeem missed a lot of games that year. And even so, there weren't 10 players who were better players than him at that time.

That was IT. He was outplayed by a young Shaq (whose teammates shrunk, while Hakeem's elevated their play) in the '95 Finals.

Shaq didn't outplay Hakeem in the '95 finals. What the hell are you talking about? Hakeem outplayed Shaq. Shaq held his own, but Hakeem clearly outplayed Shaq in games 2 and 4 and was generally better in the critical moments while Shaq only outplayed Hakeem in game 1.

I get a kick out of those that call Hakeem a great defensive center, too.

So you're denying that Hakeem was a great defensive player now?

[lbj23clutch]

Hakeem and Bird are way over-rated on this forum.

The reality...

8. Kobe
9. Bird
10. Hakeem or Moses


How anyone can rank Hakeem in their top-5 is a complete joke, and he was a borderline top-10 player all-time. How do I know this? Hakeem won ONE MVP, in a season in which MJ took a vacation. He had ONE other season, as the SECOND best player in the eyes of the MVP voters. And he had TWO more seasons as a Top-4 player. The man was not even a top-TEN player in nearly HALF of his 18 season career. And yet some consider him a top-FIVE player...ALL-TIME?????

The reality was, Hakeem outplayed Ewing in a seven game series, and in which his 58-24 Rockets (Hakeem's BEST record BTW) beat Ewing's 56-26 Knicks in that seven game series. His other claim to fame was badly outplaying Robinson in the '95 playoffs (in four of their six games.) That was IT. He was outplayed by a young Shaq (whose teammates shrunk, while Hakeem's elevated their play) in the '95 Finals.

The rest of his career, Hakeem played on 45-50 win teams (only FOUR teams that even won 50 games, and NONE that won 60.) And, how can anyone ignore this FACT...Hakeem anchored EIGHT teams that were BLOWN AWAY in the FIRST ROUND. Yes, EIGHT of his 15 playoff teams not only lost in the FIRST ROUND, they were crushed in ALL of them.

And, of course, no one mentions a more prime Shaq just abusing Hakeem. Or a 38 and 39 year old Kareem, in TEN STRAIGHT games, averaging 31.8 ppg on .630 shooting against Hakeem. Or a 38-42 year old Kareem outscoring a 23-26 year old Hakeem in their 23 H2H games, and outshooting him by a staggering .610 to .512 margin. And PLEASE, don't give me Hakeem's '86 WCF's against the 39 year old Kareem's Lakers. The Rockets coach finally accepted the fact that Hakeem was helpless in guarding Kareem, and not only had Sampson guarding the 39 year old Kareem, he had Hakeem helping him do so. And, a much more prime Hakeem still only barely outscored, outshot, and outrebounded the VERY OLD Kareem in that series.

I get a kick out of those that call Hakeem a great defensive center, too. A young Shaq not only averaged 28 ppg against him, but on a sensational .595 FG%. And a more prime Shaq averaged 29 ppg on him a couple of years later (while holding Hakeem to 13 ppg on .426 shooting.) And once again, a 38 and 39 year old Kareem was routinely dumping 30+ point games, with THREE of over 40+, and ALL on mind-boggling FG%'s.

Even Robinson, who gets ripped for playing poorly against Hakeem in their 6 game playoff series, pretty much was, at the very least, the equal of Hakeem in their remaining 42 H2H games (with Robinson's team winning 30 of them.)

Nor do the Hakeem-worshipers EVER mention that in their CAREER H2H's, BOTH in the regular season, AND post-season, Shaq wasthe MUCH more DOMINANT player.

Great shot-blocker? Again, Hakeem was not even the best shot-blocker of HIS era. "Cement Shoes" Eaton was EASILY a better shot-blocker.

Scoring? How many scoring titles did Hakeem win in his career? In fact, in how many was even CLOSE to winning a scoring title?

FG%? Hakeem was nothing more than ordinary in that regard, for a center, in HIS era. His highest FG% season was .534. BUT, that came in his ROOKIE season, in an NBA which had the HIGHEST FG% in it's HISTORY! There were 30-52 teams shooting .504 back then, and the entire Laker team shot .548 that season.

Rebounding? Hakeem barely won TWO rebounding titles, and again, in 18 seasons. In fact, when he was paired up with an equally aged 6-6 Charles Barkley, Barkley POUNDED his teammate on the glass by over FOUR per GAME.


And BTW, Hakeem shot .500, .483 and .483 in his three Finals. And again, in 15 post-seasons, and in 18 total seasons.

As for Bird. He carried SEVEN teams with HCA down in flames, and generally shot poorly in nearly all of them. He had post-seasons of .450, .444, .427, .422, and even .408, and in leagues that generally shot about .485 on average. In his five Finals he shot .488, .484, .449, .445, and even .419. He wasn't even the best player on HIS team in one of three titles in those Finals. And overall, in his five Finals, he wasn't even the second best player on the floor (or perhaps even the third best player) in three of them. In his best statistical season, in 87-88, he crumbled horribly against the Pistons, shooting .351 in that series.

Kobe had his share of holes too, but FIVE rings in SEVEN Finals, as well as scoring titles, and even spectacular scoring games. And his career, overall, is better than either Bird's, or Hakeem's.

You mad because Hakeem was a more talented big man then Kareem? Kareem is no doubt greater(part of it due to less competition of centers during his era and also MUCH better teammates), but one on one I'd put my money on Hakeem. You also gotta remember, Hakeem played in the golden age of the center position, so his competition was much tougher. This is a guy who dominated the likes of David Robinson, Shaq and Ewing in a playoff series. Give him Magic and Showtime's Lakers and I guarantee you the number of accolades would be similar if he played in the same era as Kareem.


Don't get me wrong Kareem is definitely the greater player, some might even argue the GOAT. Personally I got him at number 2 behind MJ.