Has Kobe ever led a team farther than Gasol without a HOF teammate?

[DMAVS41]

Not my fault you can't see his impact. Heats fans have said his importance to the team is more than Wade. Like I said, Heat was down 2 series without Bosh for no reason. Yet you talk like he's some 3rd option where you can find anyone with those stats to replace him.

Like I said, stop. Odom is a role player. Bosh is a star. If given a chance to get a 3rd option for your team.. you'd take Odom over Bosh?

Come on.

Did I say I'd take Odom over Bosh? No, I didn't. Although it would definitely depend on the team and circumstances...and I could definitely envision scenarios in which I'd rather have the passing, defense, and versatility of Odom over Bosh.

At some point you have to do something to warrant this talk. What did Bosh do last year or this year so far in the playoffs that Odom couldn't absolutely do or didn't already do.

Is Odom defined just by his stats? I'd argue that Odom was better than his stats as well.

Nobody is saying Bosh is only his stats or a run of the mill 3rd option. But he doesn't impact the game in a way you want him to. He's not a great defender. He's not a great rebounder. He's not a great passer. He doesn't stretch the floor all the way out to the 3 point line...so while his floor spacing is good, it's not at the elite level of a Dirk.

All you keep saying is that Bosh has the potential to do more. But he didn't do more. This is about what has been done. And last year he did nothing of note that his stats don't capture in the playoffs.

[DMAVS41]

Something someone randomly said out of no where, you would take seriously? Makes sense, considering everything you typed has been crap as well. You're a 5'8 150 pound asian. What's wrong?
The only thing you've exposed is your immaturity.

The end all for this discussion is this:
For your team's 3rd option, would you take a prime Bosh or prime Odom?

If you would take a Odom.. then yeah.. you guys are idiots. Won't waste anymore of my time.

that isn't the question. its' about...did bosh do anything in the title run last year to separate himself from odom. the answer, of course, is absolutely not. that is the point.

this isn't a hypothetical. this is about bosh vs odom in what they did in the title runs.

why? because people that list bosh as a future hall of famer...but then gloss over Odom as if he was nothing to the Lakers. when they essentially had the exact same impact. everything backs this up...stats included.

what do you have on your side? your opinion that Bosh could do more...LOL...that isn't even part of the discussion you ignorant moron.

[TonyMontana]

The question/statement was....

Name one intangible Bosh brings that isn't in the stats.

ripthekik responds with.....

Something someone randomly said out of no where, you would take seriously? Makes sense, considering everything you typed has been crap as well. You're a 5'8 150 pound asian. What's wrong?
The only thing you've exposed is your immaturity.

The end all for this discussion is this:
For your team's 3rd option, would you take a prime Bosh or prime Odom?

If you would take a Odom.. then yeah.. you guys are idiots. Won't waste anymore of my time.

Does anyone know if this dude is retarded or something? Goes on his little rants raging while completely avoiding the topic at hand.

Dont worry little guy Im sure you still have some wonton in the fridge.

[ripthekik]

that isn't the question. its' about...did bosh do anything in the title run last year to separate himself from odom. the answer, of course, is absolutely not. that is the point.

this isn't a hypothetical. this is about bosh vs odom in what they did in the title runs.

why? because people that list bosh as a future hall of famer...but then gloss over Odom as if he was nothing to the Lakers. when they essentially had the exact same impact. everything backs this up...stats included.

what do you have on your side? your opinion that Bosh could do more...LOL...that isn't even part of the discussion you ignorant moron.

My opinion that Bosh could do more? He actually did! I said, he played in his toronto level in short bursts, which can be seen by stats. When he came back, he righted the ship. His presence, his hustle, his scoring in times most needed. Watch the finals to see all the small things he did, yet uncredited. All of those can't be seen in stats.

Again, you feel the need to view Odom like some superstar, go ahead. I won't convince you. I'd like you to continue thinking this way like a idiot.

[DMAVS41]

My opinion that Bosh could do more? He actually did! I said, he played in his toronto level in short bursts, which can be seen by stats. When he came back, he righted the ship. His presence, his hustle, his scoring in times most needed. Watch the finals to see all the small things he did, yet uncredited. All of those can't be seen in stats.

Again, you feel the need to view Odom like some superstar, go ahead. I won't convince you. I'd like you to continue thinking this way like a idiot.

Odom didn't play at an elite level in short bursts? Odom didn't put up some huge games?

Never said Odom was a superstar. Said Odom impacted the game about as much as Bosh did last year on their title runs.

And I'd like to know why Bosh's performance was better. Now why Bosh is the better first option. I'd like to know what Bosh actually did last year that really separates him from Odom.

And you have offered nothing. Why? Because there is nothing.

[ripthekik]

Odom didn't play at an elite level in short bursts? Odom didn't put up some huge games?

Never said Odom was a superstar. Said Odom impacted the game about as much as Bosh did last year on their title runs.

And I'd like to know why Bosh's performance was better. Now why Bosh is the better first option. I'd like to know what Bosh actually did last year that really separates him from Odom.

And you have offered nothing. Why? Because there is nothing.

Odom doesn't have that elite level, that's the thing. Bosh does.

I offered you explanations, because those are things that can't be seen in numbers. But if you won't take them, or say that Odom does the same, what can I do?

Anyways, my last post before I leave. I'm perfectly fine with you thinking Odom is a star like Bosh is. Doesn't change anything. When people look at Kobe's Lakers.. Pau will still be the only name that pops up. Yet Wade and Bosh will always be mentioned. So yea.. keep Odom's place in your heart highly.. doesn't change a thing.

[DMAVS41]

Odom doesn't have that elite level, that's the thing. Bosh does.

I offered you explanations, because those are things that can't be seen in numbers. But if you won't take them, or say that Odom does the same, what can I do?

Anyways, my last post before I leave. I'm perfectly fine with you thinking Odom is a star like Bosh is. Doesn't change anything. When people look at Kobe's Lakers.. Pau will still be the only name that pops up. Yet Wade and Bosh will always be mentioned. So yea.. keep Odom's place in your heart highly.. doesn't change a thing.

I don't think Odom is a star on the level of Bosh. I think their impact as third options was about as equal as you can get. Bosh is a better shooter scorer, but Odom is better in other ways. They put up similar stats...and both had some really good games and some really shitty games.

You keep making my point for me. Bosh is mentioned for what he used to do and what he could potentially do. Not for what he actually did. If that changes...then it will change.

But last year and so far this year. Bosh's impact is no different than that of Odom. And the reason you hate that so much is because you love to use Bosh against Lebron...when in reality, he's no different than Odom (a player you don't even mention when it comes to those Lakers teams)

That is the exact point. That reality is different than you BS perceptions on what Bosh actually did on that team last year in the playoffs.

Do you realize he was hurt? Do you realize he missed games? I swear people think they can revise history now on something that is less than a year old.

Let me ask you this. Who would you rather playing the 3rd option on a team taking roughly an average of 10 shots a game and not getting to have the ball in his hand a lot. He's the clear cut 3rd option.

Prime Artest or Prime Iverson? Please answer.

Funny how you Kobe fans don't do it this way when it comes to Gasol and Howard this year. Those guys just "suck"...but if Lebron had them...it would be about their elite level and what they are capable of. So you have no issue with someone hammering Kobe for barely making the playoffs with Howard and Gasol? Or can we use logic and understand that Howard wasn't the same player this year because of injuries and the role he was playing on a team with a terrible coach for him and poor chemistry. Same with Gasol? Or do we really have pretend like they were better than they actually were this year because of their names.

The truth is that if Bosh was just a no name player and did what he did in the playoffs last year. Nobody would be saying anything about it other than that guy is a really good 3rd option. But because Bosh used to average more points on a shitty team...we have to pretend he does stuff he doesn't actually do.

Is that about right?

[fozi]

Pau will be 0-16 in all-time playoff games without Kobe.


Dude, try to be more objective in looking into things in life ..


Kobe is obviously giving you nightmares as you continue to throw things at him even when he's not playing ..

[dh144498]

Pau will be 0-16 in all-time playoff games without Kobe.


Dude, try to be more objective in looking into things in life ..


Kobe is obviously giving you nightmares as you continue to throw things at him even when he's not playing ..

[ShaqAttack3234]

So he is always been soft except for when he is winning championships with Kobe.

Same with Bosh with Lebron/Wade and the Olympic teams.

Funny how that works right?

2008 finals seemed like a wakeup call for him. His first legit shot at a title and he got exposed to some degree, but learned from it. There's articles from that summer about Pau getting stronger and when he was tested in the finals the next 2 years, first vs Dwight and then vs Boston, he passed with flying colors.

Downfall started in 2011. Pau had a great start to the season, but he was being relied on more with Kobe coming off a knee surgery and Bynum out to start the season. That combined with 3 straight long playoff runs to the finals, playing for Spain and reaching 30 seemed to effect him to some degree as the season went on. This was most noticeable at the defensive end where he had clearly slipped compared to the 2 championship years. Then there was the bizarre girlfriend situation in the 2011 playoffs, the near trade for CP3, and probably more than anything being moved further away from the basket in favor of Bynum and Howard.

So yes, he's been softer since the championships. By the way, Bosh is a really good player, but he's still a soft player who shoots a lot of jumpers and doesn't rebound well.

[kennethgriffin]

2008 finals seemed like a wakeup call for him. His first legit shot at a title and he got exposed to some degree, but learned from it. There's articles from that summer about Pau getting stronger and when he was tested in the finals the next 2 years, first vs Dwight and then vs Boston, he passed with flying colors.

Downfall started in 2011. Pau had a great start to the season, but he was being relied on more with Kobe coming off a knee surgery and Bynum out to start the season. That combined with 3 straight long playoff runs to the finals, playing for Spain and reaching 30 seemed to effect him to some degree as the season went on. This was most noticeable at the defensive end where he had clearly slipped compared to the 2 championship years. Then there was the bizarre girlfriend situation in the 2011 playoffs, the near trade for CP3, and probably more than anything being moved further away from the basket in favor of Bynum and Howard.

So yes, he's been softer since the championships. By the way, Bosh is a really good player, but he's still a soft player who shoots a lot of jumpers and doesn't rebound well.

even you can admit pau gasol only had 2 legit great seasons in his career

is that a hall of famer?

[ShaqAttack3234]

even you can admit pau gasol only had 2 legit great seasons in his career

is that a hall of famer?

As well as a number of really good seasons. This is pretty irrelevant though to how good Gasol was because if he wasn't playing at a HOF level then not that many championship 2nd options have since the 90's. Pippen and '01/'02 Kobe would be the only true championship second options since the 90's in that case.

But the impact he made in LA as soon as he arrived combined with being a huge part of 2 titles and at least 10 years of all-star caliber play makes him no less worthy than some already in the HOF.