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  1. #76
    National High School Star I.R.Beast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

    Quote Originally Posted by STATUTORY
    ball dominating players like Lebron, Wade, Chris Paul, never make their teammates better. they reduce them to spot up shooters or backdoor cutters or fastbreak finishers.

    People conflate high assist numbers with being good teammate when in reality they are completely different things.

    A young player like Blake Griffin probably is hurting his development as a complete NBA player playing next to Chris Paul. Real talk

    look at what happened to beasley smh
    Wish more people would understand this....When guys like Kobe that is said to be a ball hog actually has a game taylor made for his support players to maximize their production.

  2. #77
    GIVEN NOT EARNED ripthekik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

    Quote Originally Posted by I.R.Beast
    no he doesnt and never has....i hate the term make players better. James has never helped to increase the production of a player he has played with. Infact his ball dominant style does the opposite. Its difficult for other players to be productive outside of catching and shooting playing with lebron. James makes his TEAM better in its totality due to his presence but he doesnt make any one individual on the team better, he infact hinders their production
    I agree with this.

    And no one has yet to answer my question:
    Quote Originally Posted by ripthekik
    this is basically saying, if he makes the allstar team this year, back then he's always played at an all-star level. He just didn't have the stats due to not playing enough time. So basically in Cleveland Lebron always had an unrecognized all star rebounding machine.
    most lebron fans here act like Verajao has always played this way, just didn't have the minutes so his stats improved the last 2 years. But doesn't this mean Lebron always had all-star talent Verajao around him?

  3. #78
    Linja Status Whoah10115's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pointguard
    Boozer was vastly overpaid, overated because people remember the Lebron days. Boozer is mediocore but has had max contracts and never lived up to his expections without Lebron.


    ????


    Boozer's career years were in Utah. Give that credit to Deron if you don't want to give it to Boozer, but don't give it to Lebron. He played better every year he was in Utah than he ever did in Cleveland.

  4. #79
    NBA lottery pick Dave3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

    Quote Originally Posted by che guevara
    Uh, what? Lebron ran tons of PnR with Varejao, especially in the '09-'10 season. Don't know what you're talking about here.
    Exactly what I wanted to say. It seems like it was every game LeBron and V were doing pick and rolls leading to Varejao scoring off the roll, or off a cut, etc. etc. Varejao was one of LeBron's favourite targets under the basket throughout his entire time in Cleveland.

  5. #80
    5-time NBA All-Star
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    Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoah10115
    ????

    Boozer's career years were in Utah. Give that credit to Deron if you don't want to give it to Boozer, but don't give it to Lebron. He played better every year he was in Utah than he ever did in Cleveland.
    For centers and forwards first impressions never leave a player. Darko probably never belonged in the NBA but 8 teams were excited about him when they got him because of their first impression - Darko made 50 million in the NBA based on his first impression (actually the one he had before he joined the league). Darko and Kwame Brown were 6 point and 5 rebound career guys. Boozer was a 15.5 and 11.4 guy at 22 years of age with Lebron being the main focal point of the offense and Z the second option. He peaked at 21 and 10.5 with Boozer himself being the man in a pick and role system taking four more shots per game. He didn't develop the way he should have. Not age wise, not 3rd to 1st option wise, not knowing the game wise did he progress the way he should have. He should have had 4 or 5years at 20 and 10.

    Chicago wasn't thinking of a pick and role system for Boozer. So they were looking at the Lebron, Boozer. He didn't get a max for under achieving in Utah's pick and role system with Deron. Boozer had no chance of being the number one option in Chicago. Rose plays more like Lebron than Deron.

  6. #81
    I rule the local playground
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    Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

    Define all-star?? Varejao is not an all-star

    Idk it seems like according to this thread James won that ring all by himself with no help, because in fact he is a one man team..

    So not sure if this is a hate thread or an appreciation thread
    Last edited by alleykat; 11-28-2012 at 03:19 AM.

  7. #82
    King James ihoopallday's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

    Quote Originally Posted by alleykat
    Define all-star?? Varejao is not an all-star

    Idk it seems like according to this thread James won that ring all by himself with no help, because in fact he is a one man team..

    So not sure if this is a hate thread or an appreciation thread
    Ripthekik thread backfired on him.

  8. #83
    GIVEN NOT EARNED ripthekik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

    Quote Originally Posted by alleykat
    Define all-star?? Varejao is not an all-star

    Idk it seems like according to this thread James won that ring all by himself with no help, because in fact he is a one man team..

    So not sure if this is a hate thread or an appreciation thread
    Varejao is definitely playing like an all-star this year, if you can't recognize that you're just blind. He's probably the league's leading rebounder at this point, and his stats are crazy. Unless he starts playing like shiit or gets injured, he's going to make the all-star team.

    Many lebron fans here claim he has been the same, only not getting these stats due to the lack of minutes.

    Therefore we can conclude that lebron has always had all-star talent such as Varejao in his team back in CAVS.

  9. #84
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    Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

    Quote Originally Posted by ripthekik
    Varejao is definitely playing like an all-star this year, if you can't recognize that you're just blind. He's probably the league's leading rebounder at this point, and his stats are crazy. Unless he starts playing like shiit or gets injured, he's going to make the all-star team.

    Many lebron fans here claim he has been the same, only not getting these stats due to the lack of minutes.

    Therefore we can conclude that lebron has always had all-star talent such as Varejao in his team back in CAVS.
    yes but to be an all-star you need to be a player on the "all-star" roster. he hasn't made it yet so we will see if and when it happens. Johnny Moore never made an All-Star Appearance in late 80's to 90's with the Spurs despite averaging almost a double-double for the season and post season. He is not an "all-star".

    anyways I was confused by your phrasing.

  10. #85
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    Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

    Making teammates better is mostly a myth. Most of the good players that played with Jordan did better when they were away from Jordan. Can you guess why? Because when Jordan is around, he's the one that gets the ball. That's how it should be.

  11. #86
    Verticle? plowking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

    Quote Originally Posted by ripthekik
    Varejao is definitely playing like an all-star this year, if you can't recognize that you're just blind. He's probably the league's leading rebounder at this point, and his stats are crazy. Unless he starts playing like shiit or gets injured, he's going to make the all-star team.

    Many lebron fans here claim he has been the same, only not getting these stats due to the lack of minutes.

    Therefore we can conclude that lebron has always had all-star talent such as Varejao in his team back in CAVS.
    So if Jamaal Magloire comes back and plays for a team, they're adding an all star talent to the team?

    Your logic seems to be all over the shop for this one.

  12. #87
    GIVEN NOT EARNED ripthekik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

    Quote Originally Posted by plowking
    So if Jamaal Magloire comes back and plays for a team, they're adding an all star talent to the team?

    Your logic seems to be all over the shop for this one.
    Nope, because Jamaal will be no longer the same player.

    Hey, I'm not the one claiming Verajao has always been this same productive player, only only didn't get these stats because he didn't play enough minutes when with Lebron. Lebron fans are the ones who are saying this

    Funny they don't want Verajao to be seen as having a huge improvement after Lebron leaves, but in doing so, they just admitted that Lebron has all-star talent all along.

  13. #88
    I rule the local playground
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    Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

    Oh so I get it....it's just to prove that James has had all star talent with him even with varejao, just that he gets no help from it because he suppresses it (based on your evidence for wade's decline) and he is not a team player nor a person who makes his team better

    Either way like I said this thread makes it seem like James won that ring all by himself with no help....
    Last edited by alleykat; 11-28-2012 at 08:48 AM.

  14. #89
    Linja Status Whoah10115's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pointguard
    For centers and forwards first impressions never leave a player. Darko probably never belonged in the NBA but 8 teams were excited about him when they got him because of their first impression - Darko made 50 million in the NBA based on his first impression (actually the one he had before he joined the league). Darko and Kwame Brown were 6 point and 5 rebound career guys. Boozer was a 15.5 and 11.4 guy at 22 years of age with Lebron being the main focal point of the offense and Z the second option. He peaked at 21 and 10.5 with Boozer himself being the man in a pick and role system taking four more shots per game. He didn't develop the way he should have. Not age wise, not 3rd to 1st option wise, not knowing the game wise did he progress the way he should have. He should have had 4 or 5years at 20 and 10.

    Chicago wasn't thinking of a pick and role system for Boozer. So they were looking at the Lebron, Boozer. He didn't get a max for under achieving in Utah's pick and role system with Deron. Boozer had no chance of being the number one option in Chicago. Rose plays more like Lebron than Deron.



    I mean, Boozer is an all-star caliber player...but not an elite player by any means. He's a hard-working 20/10 guy, who's smart and can pass the ball well. He's also got a good post game. He can't wreak havoc the way Randolph can, but again his post game is good and he can rack up numbers on a 50win team. Utah won 50 games a couple times and 48 another. In Utah, he had one year where he missed almost 50 games.


    The Chicago deal was stupid, but he could be worth that to a team with a different PG or a certain system.

  15. #90
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    Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

    Quote Originally Posted by ripthekik
    Varejao is definitely playing like an all-star this year, if you can't recognize that you're just blind. He's probably the league's leading rebounder at this point, and his stats are crazy. Unless he starts playing like shiit or gets injured, he's going to make the all-star team.

    Many lebron fans here claim he has been the same, only not getting these stats due to the lack of minutes.

    Therefore we can conclude that lebron has always had all-star talent such as Varejao in his team back in CAVS.

    Good point. Varajao now = just as good when with LeBron. Varajao now = All-star. Therefore Varajao with LeBron = All-star. It's their own logic.

    Either Andy was always this good and LeBron had more help than people like to admit, or LeBron held Varajao back.

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