Where Does Manu Ginobili Rank All Time

[DarkSephiroth]

Good read, I kind of agree! He's the best possible thing for that team. Instant Offense!

[Kblaze8855]

I would like someone who thinks it to explain to me why Manu is better than Dennis Johnson who wasnt even given top 50 status.

Few things...

Dennis Johnson was an all NBA first teamer, like a 6 time all star, had about 8 deep playoff runs, won a finals MVP, won 3 rings, made 9 all D teams, stepped up in the playoffs pretty much yearly, was unselfish, well rounded and could and did play and defend 3 positions, and he made several major plays in the finals including:

Blocked an attempted game winner in 79 in a game he had 32/10.
Got a steal and hit the resulting FTs vs the Lakers end of game game 7 in 84
Made the game winner in game 4 in the 85 finals.
Had 22/14 in game 4 of the 84 finals and hit the FTs to seal the game


In the 87 playoffs he averaged 19/9 after 13/8 in the regular season and in the finals:

7 points and 13 assists
20/9/4
26/7/4
15 points and 14 assists
25/11
33/10/5

And his career was winding down.

In the 86 finals

19/11/8
18/7/4
20/7/4
21/4/4
13/5/4
10/5/5/3 steals(they were up by 30 in the 4th)

17/6/5 in the finals in total.


Dennis Johnson was one of the best players in the league, then one of the best role players ever, and he doesnt even get mentioned that often when discussing those celtics. They had a godly frontcourt but he pulled more than his own weight.

DJ was both a superstar and the ultimate role player and didnt know how to lose(the Suns won 57, 46, and 53 with him...and the Sonics won the title...so you cant claim the celtics made him a winner).

Is he not pretty much Manu plus all time great defense and proving he could lead a team himself?

I dont even intend to argue. Id just like to see what could be said to justify it.

[Jacks3]

Manu is a top 5-6 SG ever. The only people hatin are morons who can't look past the meaningless raw stats...

It's not some luck that he has huge advanced stats AND HUGE +/- numbers.

Dude is a big impact player.

lol Dennis Johnson.

[Kblaze8855]

So Dennis Johnson gets laughed at now?

Thats where we are?



"Makes me sick mother****er just how far we done fell...."

[jlauber]

FOR ME top 20 but idiot people obsessed with stats underrate him so much and say scrubs like Monta Ellis and Joe Johnson are better

For me, 3rd best SG OF ALL TIME

Where do you rank Sam Jones (as just one of MANY examples)?

[Living Being]

I have Manu set firmly at the #72 all-time spot for NBA players.

[SCdac]

I'd say he's somewhere in between #70 and #100, and as far as SG's somewhere in between #10 and #16.

The last decade (00-10), I'd say only Kobe, Wade, Iverson, McGrady, and Allen were better.

Some would say Vince Carter is better too, and I can fully understand that, but I think there's more to being an all-time great than big stats/production, and at some point you have to realize the success Manu has been a part of is not coincidence or happenstance. Ginobili could probably put up 20 ppg on 17 shots and 22 ppg on 20 shots if given the green light in his prime, but he didn't. Vince could probably contribute to a championship team with a Duncan kind of player, but he didn't. None the less, sometimes felt like Carter wasn't giving it his all, was a locker room negative, and you never saw that with Manu. Think Ginobili's game has age better too, and he's been a better defender through most of their careers.

Comparing Ginobili's best championship run statistically with some other shooting guards of the last couple decades (in a similar role), and I think he holds up. As they're all "shooters" and "scorers", I bolded their ppg.

Hamilton (04) - 40.2 mpg, 21.5 ppg (44.7 FG%), 4.2 apg, 4.6 rpg, 1.2 spg

Kobe (00) - 39.0 mpg, 21.1 ppg (44.2 FG%), 4.4 apg, 4.5 rpg, 1.5 spg

Manu (05) - 33.6 mpg, 20.8 ppg (50.7 FG%), 4.2 apg, 5.8 rpg, 1.2 spg

Drexler (95) - 38.6 mpg, 20.5 ppg (48.1 FG%), 5.0 apg, 7.0 rpg, 1.5 spg

Dumars (89) - 36.5 mpg, 17.6 ppg (45.5 FG%), 5.6 apg, 2.6 rpg, 0.7 spg

Terry (11) - 32.6 mpg, 17.5 ppg (47.8 FG%), 3.2 apg, 1.9 rpg, 1.2 spg

Allen (08) - 38.0 mpg, 15.6 ppg (42.8 FG%), 2.7 apg, 3.8 rpg, 0.9 spg

[SuperPippen]

Manu Ginobli is not better than any of the following players.

MJ
Kobe
West
Iverson
Wade
Drexler
Gervin
Jones
Allen
Dumars

He's arguably not even better than Reggie or Maravich.

I'm not a hater, I'm a realist. I've always been a huge fan of Manu, but people claiming he's one of the 20 best basketball players to ever live, and a top 5 SG ever is ridiculous.

[jlauber]

Manu Ginobli is not better than any of the following players.

MJ
Kobe
West
Iverson
Wade
Drexler
Gervin
Jones
Allen
Dumars

He's arguably not even better than Reggie or Maravich.

I'm not a hater, I'm a realist. I've always been a huge fan of Manu, but people claiming he's one of the 20 best basketball players to ever live, and a top 5 SG ever is ridiculous.

This.

[ILLsmak]

I'd say he's somewhere in between #70 and #100, and as far as SG's somewhere in between #10 and #16.

The last decade (00-10), I'd say only Kobe, Wade, Iverson, McGrady, and Allen were better.

Some would say Vince Carter is better too, and I can fully understand that, but I think there's more to being an all-time great than big stats/production, and at some point you have to realize the success Manu has been a part of is not coincidence or happenstance. Ginobili could probably put up 20 ppg on 17 shots and 22 ppg on 20 shots if given the green light in his prime, but he didn't. Vince could probably contribute to a championship team with a Duncan kind of player, but he didn't. None the less, sometimes felt like Carter wasn't giving it his all, was a locker room negative, and you never saw that with Manu. Think Ginobili's game has age better too, and he's been a better defender through most of their careers.

Comparing Ginobili's best championship run statistically with some other shooting guards of the last couple decades (in a similar role), and I think he holds up. As they're all "shooters" and "scorers", I bolded their ppg.

Hamilton (04) - 40.2 mpg, 21.5 ppg (44.7 FG%), 4.2 apg, 4.6 rpg, 1.2 spg

Kobe (00) - 39.0 mpg, 21.1 ppg (44.2 FG%), 4.4 apg, 4.5 rpg, 1.5 spg

Manu (05) - 33.6 mpg, 20.8 ppg (50.7 FG%), 4.2 apg, 5.8 rpg, 1.2 spg

Drexler (95) - 38.6 mpg, 20.5 ppg (48.1 FG%), 5.0 apg, 7.0 rpg, 1.5 spg

Dumars (89) - 36.5 mpg, 17.6 ppg (45.5 FG%), 5.6 apg, 2.6 rpg, 0.7 spg

Terry (11) - 32.6 mpg, 17.5 ppg (47.8 FG%), 3.2 apg, 1.9 rpg, 1.2 spg

Allen (08) - 38.0 mpg, 15.6 ppg (42.8 FG%), 2.7 apg, 3.8 rpg, 0.9 spg

Yea, not giving Allen that nod over Manu. There are players that are clearly better at the SG, if you're looking at the modern era... like MJ, Wade, and Kobe.

Iverson and McGrady were definitely better as well, but they didn't win like Manu.

Even so, I think it's fair to rank him as a top 10 SG ESPECIALLY in the clutch. He's definitely a specialist type player. He gives his team what it needs. He's not going to be able to lead a bad team with 30 ppg IMO.

But I also disqualify the non-modern era because I don't think it's a fair comparison. I'm thinking of since there were a lot of teams in the NBA, a 3 point line, etc.

Edit: Is he CLEARLY worse than Dumars? I don't think that's a fair statement. The only guys that I'd say are CLEARLY better than Manu are those that put up 30 a game and won a ring.

-Smak

[WillyJakk]

FOR ME top 20 but idiot people obsessed with stats underrate him so much and say scrubs like Monta Ellis and Joe Johnson are better

For me, 3rd best SG OF ALL TIME

Already made my contribution to this site about Manu & I think this is one of the few guys that actually got it right.

Manu is definitely the 3rd Best SG of All Time to me.

All Time Player Ranking, I'd have to sit down and think about it.

[SuperPippen]

Already made my contribution to this site about Manu & I think this is one of the few guys that actually got it right.

Manu is definitely the 3rd Best SG of All Time to me.

All Time Player Ranking, I'd have to sit down and think about it.

No, he really isn't. At all.

[RRR3]

Already made my contribution to this site about Manu & I think this is one of the few guys that actually got it right.

Manu is definitely the 3rd Best SG of All Time to me.

All Time Player Ranking, I'd have to sit down and think about it.

Come to ISH for side-splitting comments like this, kids!

[Kblaze8855]

Reggie and Pete are 2 I have no problem seeing Manu step in for. He wouldnt have to do anything to replace Pete except shoot more, not be liked much by his teammates, lose at a rate beyond that of Marbury, and not be wanted by any team in the league when the Hawks wanted to trade him until his home area got a team and needed him for ticket sales. Probably a mean and somewhat unfair way to describe Petes career....especially considering that he played a good bit on that expansion team that traded for him.

But something about his whole story just feels unimpressive. Hes the all time NCAA scoring leader because he played for his dad in school who let him take 38 shots a game while winning nothing. He goes to a Hawks team that was already pretty good and they did nothing. He goes to the Jazz to do nothing. He never wins anything itll hes briefly a Celtic.

He had numbers....kinda. If taking 28 shots a game to score 31 points is great numbers. And he got a few assists...if 4-7 a game on teams that might score 115 a game is impressive. First year the NBA tracked turnovers he averaged 5 a game. 5 flat. Not rounded up.

He sure has skills but...I dont know. Im not sure he did anything I wouldnt expect manu to get done. Maybe a game or two here and there. But for the most part?

Im back and forth on Pete...

[WillyJakk]

Come to ISH for side-splitting comments like this, kids!

Says the jit w/ Tracy McGrady in his avy.

And Tracy was one of my all time favorites (especially for us) and I still root for the dude to this day but please...

Matter of fact, you just reminded me of a thread idea I've had for a LONG time but forgot to post it, gonna do it now. Thanks.