If Dirk wins a title this year, do you put it on par with '94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan?

[Teanett]

hakeem: jordan didnt play...

dirk: lebron, wade, kobe, durant are arguably the 4 best players in the league...

so yes, i'd place dirk '11 over hakeem '94

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Still below Hakeem n Duncan.
Those guys were all monsters on the defensive end. Dirk isn't.

[millwad]

Why do you feel what Hakeem did was more worthy of the number 1 spot than what Dirk, assuming he wins the title, has done?

Dirk has had to go through much tougher opposition, in my opinion.

Maybe the deepest team in the league 1-8 in Portland.

The 2 time defending champs in the second round without home court.

The upstart OKC Thunder who will probably end up with a title or two before it's all said and done.

...and then finally this Heat team, who has two of the top 20 players ever on their team in their primes...and an all-star power forward who drops 20/10 in his prime too.


Dirk would have gone through that very difficult road without any all-stars, and a season-ending injury to one of it's best players in Caron Butler.

Easy, Hakeem had no all-star caliber players on his team in 94, the rest of his starting 5 included Kenny Smith, Maxwell, Thorpe and Horry and the two important guys of the bench was rookie Sam Cassell and the 160th pick, Mario Elie..

If you compare that to Dirks team you understand how much better his supporting cast is, he has guys like Jason Terry, Jason Kidd, Tyson Chandler, Barea, Butler (before he got injured), Shawn Marion, Haywood, Stojakovic and Stevenson.

If you compare the starting five of Hakeems to Dirk's, the only position Houston has the edge in, is the center position which Hakeem stood for..

And lets not forget Hakeem dominated way more in 94 than Dirk has dominated, Hakeem won MVP, DPOY and Finals MVP and IF Dirk now wins, he'd only have the Finals MVP..

This shouldn't even be a discussion.

[millwad]

hakeem: jordan didnt play...

dirk: lebron, wade, kobe, durant are arguably the 4 best players in the league...

so yes, i'd place dirk '11 over hakeem '94

Ehm, Hakeem would have still been in the finals in 94 and faced Jordan too and Hakeem is the only superstar in the NBA who hasn't a looooosing record vs MJ and your beloved MJ was there in 95 and he got his ass busted by the same team Olajuwon later swept. Not too sure history would have changed with MJ being in it.

[DMAVS41]

If you think this is more impressive than Duncan's run, that's fine. It's your opinion.

I'd laugh at the idea of agreeing with that, or if anyone else agrees though...

In the same conversation, maybe, offensively. But Dirk is no Hakeem or Duncan as far as being an all-around player and his run is coincided by great help from his team, just like any other great team.

Play Dirk with Malik Rose for 23 minutes a night and I'd like to see how far that team goes... Duncan took it to the Finals.

What?

Malik Rose is your go to guy for this. LOL

Thats like me saying:

Play Duncan with Peja for 20 minutes a night and I'd like to see how far that team goes.....Dirk took it to the Finals.

I have no problem with somebody ranking Duncan's run higher. I do have a problem with people saying its not on the same level.

You mention Malik Rose. You fail to mention Robinson. Even at his age he was giving you 23 minutes a game of quality production from center and in 8 less minutes giving you production very close to Tyson Chandler. Chandler is putting up 8 points and 9 boards and playing good defense. Robinson put up 8 points and 7 boards and played good defense. LOL

Or how about Tony Parker and Stephen Jackson. Very similar to the play of Terry and Marion.

Then you have Bowen. Simply a much better stevenson.
Then you have Manu. Easily as good or better than Barea and not a huge defensive liability.

Haywood and Malik Rose are very similar.

They are very similar teams. I'd give the edge to the Mavs in terms of supporting cast because of what Kidd provides, but its a slight edge.

When you factor in the competition, Dirk gets a huge edge here. The Spurs did the Shaq/Kobe Lakers and that is hugely impressive. But they also beat a Dallas team without Dirk in the WCF and then played the Nets in the finals.

Sorry. Going through Portland, Lakers, Thunder.....and then potentially the Wade/Lebron Heat would be much more impressive.

This isn't about which player is better. I'd take 03 Duncan over Dirk right now. Its about which playoff run is most impressive. There is a lot more to that conversation than just who the better player was.

[AlphaWolf24]

hakeem: jordan didnt play...

dirk: lebron, wade, kobe, durant are arguably the 4 best players in the league...

so yes, i'd place dirk '11 over hakeem '94

Jordan jockers ruining basketball one post at a time


..the other 10 years MJ Played and the Bull's lost, was he too young or too old?

[SCdac]

What?

Malik Rose is your go to guy for this. LOL

Thats like me saying:

Play Duncan with Peja for 20 minutes a night and I'd like to see how far that team goes.....Dirk took it to the Finals.

Duncan basically DID take a team with Peja playing 20 minutes to the Finals - only his name was Brent Barry.... in 2005.

You're the biggest Dirk homer on this board and that fact you think this run is more impressive than Duncan's is simply laughable (yeah keep trying to backtrack...) and shows you have no understanding of the game whatsoever.

Duncan closed out the NJN in the 2003 Finals with:

21 points
20 rebounds
10 assists
8 blocks
46 minutes

That was almost as many assists as the entire Nets team that night... and to put it in perspective, Dirk has blocked a total of 10 shots through 17 playoff games. These Mavs rely on their bigs like Chandler and Haywood as much as anything. Stop pretending Dirk has anywhere near the impact on both ends that Duncan and Hakeem do - the defensive impact the Spurs and Rockets relied on.

[DMAVS41]

Duncan basically DID take a team with Peja playing 20 minutes to the Finals - only his name was Brent Barry.... in 2005.

You're the biggest Dirk homer on this board and that fact you think this run is more impressive than Duncan's is simply laughable (yeah keep trying to backtrack...) and shows you have no understanding of the game whatsoever.

Duncan closed out the NJN in the 2003 Finals with:

21 points
20 rebounds
10 assists
8 blocks
46 minutes

That was almost as many assists as the entire Nets team that night... and to put it in perspective, Dirk has blocked a total of 10 shots through 17 playoff games. These Mavs rely on their bigs like Chandler and Haywood as much as anything. Stop pretending Dirk has anywhere near the impact on both ends that Duncan and Dirk do - the defensive impact the Spurs and Rockets relied on.

You don't understand what the question actually is ****ing moron.

Stop rattling off stats as if it means anything. Dirk has all time great numbers as well. When you combine that with his all time great clutch play its hugely impressive.

Which player had the better supporting cast? Dirk. Slightly. The teams are actually very similar though. Parker and Jackson are very similar to Terry and Marion. Robinson and Rose are very similar to Chandler and Haywood.

Manu was better than Barea.
Bowen was better than Stevenson.
Claxton vs Peja? Toss up.

The difference is Kidd. Kidd gives the edge to Dirk in supporting cast help.

However, when you factor in competition, it evens out or actually favors Dirk.

Duncan had to beat a weak Suns team, a great Lakers team (amazing), and a Dallas team without Dirk. Then he faced an average Nets team in the finals.

Dirk had to beat a solid Blazers team, a great Lakers team (amazing), and a very good Thunder team. Then he has to beat a Heat team that is probably 3 times better than the Nets were in 03.

Then factor in things like the Mavs went 12-3 in the Western Conference. Sweeping the Lakers and beating the Thunder in 5.

While the Spurs went 12-6 against weaker competition. LOL


I don't know how much more clear I can be. Duncan in 03 was a better player than Dirk is now. However, the playoff run that Dirk has had so far is at least on par with Duncan's. If the Mavs win, Dirk deserves to be right there. I'd actually have Dirk higher, but I'm cool with any ranking as long as they are in the same league.

Stop ignoring reality dude. This Mavs team is getting grossly over-rated right now.

Wake up moron.

[SCdac]

You don't understand what the question actually is ****ing moron.

Stop rattling off stats as if it means anything. Dirk has all time great numbers as well. When you combine that with his all time great clutch play its hugely impressive.

Which player had the better supporting cast? Dirk. Slightly. The teams are actually very similar though. Parker and Jackson are very similar to Terry and Marion. Robinson and Rose are very similar to Chandler and Haywood.

Manu was better than Barea.
Bowen was better than Stevenson.
Claxton vs Peja? Toss up.

The difference is Kidd. Kidd gives the edge to Dirk in supporting cast help.

However, when you factor in competition, it evens out or actually favors Dirk.

Duncan had to beat a weak Suns team, a great Lakers team (amazing), and a Dallas team without Dirk. Then he faced an average Nets team in the finals.

Dirk had to beat a solid Blazers team, a great Lakers team (amazing), and a very good Thunder team. Then he has to beat a Heat team that is probably 3 times better than the Nets were in 03.

Then factor in things like the Mavs went 12-3 in the Western Conference. Sweeping the Lakers and beating the Thunder in 5.

While the Spurs went 12-6 against weaker competition. LOL


I don't know how much more clear I can be. Duncan in 03 was a better player than Dirk is now. However, the playoff run that Dirk has had so far is at least on par with Duncan's. If the Mavs win, Dirk deserves to be right there. I'd actually have Dirk higher, but I'm cool with any ranking as long as they are in the same league.

Stop ignoring reality dude. This Mavs team is getting grossly over-rated right now.

Wake up moron.

Yeah, I can't believe the Mavs beat the Blazers with Brandon Roy - Portland's best player - averaging a whopping 23 minutes per game and 9 points per game!!! OMG how did the Mavs pull that off?

Let me guess, to you, the Blazers and Thunder are some of the best teams of all-time... and beating the Lakers - who had the SAME record going into the playoffs as the Mavs - makes Dirk a top-10 all time player ... ? ..... does that sound about right

If anything, and I'm going to end it with this because arguing with you is pointless, you are UNDER rating the Mavs team... Only a serious Dirk-homer could do that, and it's no surprise it's you.

[KingBeasley08]

No it isnt. Those two carried their teams on both sides of the ball. Dirk is only offensively carrying his team

[DMAVS41]

Yeah, I can't believe the Mavs beat the Blazers with Brandon Roy - Portland's best player - averaging a whopping 23 minutes per game and 9 points per game!!! OMG how did the Mavs pull that off?

Let me guess, to you, the Blazers and Thunder are some of the best teams of all-time... and beating the Lakers - who had the SAME record going into the playoffs as the Mavs - makes Dirk a top-10 all time player ... ? ..... does that sound about right

If anything, and I'm going to end it with this because arguing with you is pointless, you are UNDER rating the Mavs team... Only a serious Dirk-homer could do that, and it's no surprise it's you.

Great response.

Funny how the Mavs were barely favored to beat that Blazers team. Wonder why. LOL

Once again, you are under-rating the shit out of that Spurs team. Robinson was nearly as impactful as Chandler in less minutes. Rose was simply a better player than Haywood. Manu much better than Barea. Similar offensively, but Manu was a much better defender. Bowen just easily a better player than stevenson.

Paker and Terry were very similar.
Jakson and Marion were very similar.

You can't respond so you resort to calling me a Dirk homer. LOL

You want to talk about competition.

Wow, the Spurs beat a flawed Suns team in 6. Wow. I'm impressed.

Wow, the Spurs beat the Mavs without Dirk in 6. Wow. I'm impressed.

Wow, the Spurs beat a 49 win Nets team in 6. Wow. I'm impressed.


The level of competition difference is a ****ing joke. Duncan and his spurs played scrub teams outside of the Lakers. Scrubs.

Funny how you fail to factor that in at all.

Let me guess, you think the Mavs without Dirk is an all time great team. I'd expect nothing less from a huge Duncan homer.

Beat some real teams please. Then we'll talk.

See? Making absurd arguments is fun.

[tpols]

That was almost as many assists as the entire Nets team that night... and to put it in perspective, Dirk has blocked a total of 10 shots through 17 playoff games. These Mavs rely on their bigs like Chandler and Haywood as much as anything. Stop pretending Dirk has anywhere near the impact on both ends that Duncan and Hakeem do - the defensive impact the Spurs and Rockets relied on.

And you need to stop pretending Duncan ever provided this type of offense and close-out ability in a playoff run. Dirk's offensive explosions and clutch performances this year outmatch any that duncan has ever put up..

And it's funny how duncan got to face the nets in the finals.. and meanwhile Dirk is now facing this heat team which is literally 3X as strong.

As far as competition goes it really isn't close.. Dallas has overcome much higher odds on Dirk's back so far.. He has to finish it though.

[DMAVS41]

And you need to stop pretending Duncan ever provided this type of offense and close-out ability in a playoff run. Dirk's offensive explosions and clutch performances this year outmatch any that duncan has ever put up..

And it's funny how duncan got to face the nets in the finals.. and meanwhile Dirk is now facing this heat team which is literally 3X as strong.

As far as competition goes it really isn't close.. Dallas has overcome much higher odds on Dirk's back so far.. He has to finish it though.

Exactly.

This isn't a debate if the Mavs lose like you said.

This is of course assuming the Mavs win. The level of competition difference is huge.

[Soothing Layup]

I'd put it over duncans run but not hakeems. Hakeem won DPOY, Finals MVP, and League MVP.

Not to mention his impact on defense is double what dirks is.

[SCdac]

I'd put it over duncans run but not hakeems. Hakeem won DPOY, Finals MVP, and League MVP.

Not to mention his impact on defense is double what dirks is.

And Duncan's isn't???