Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen: RED WARRIORS

**3ball** · 01-03-2015, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by rlsmooth775

Op it's not good to live that far in the past it's over man

i'll always prefer basketball where great individual plays are consistently needed to win, which only happened in previous eras because there was no spacing or clear lane to get open shots, and players had no choice but to make great individual plays like the GIF below.

I prefer the individually-unique skill and faster, more instinctive play of previous eras, over today's rigid, marching-band-like spacing, and the resulting commodotized play-finishing and slower pace.

**1987_Lakers** · 01-03-2015, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Feeny

Don't make an ass out of yourself. MJ and Pippen were miles ahead of Kobe and Shaq. The results speak for themselves.
To say that no one will "come close" to a sub 60 win team is a joke.

There is always that one poster who is just clueless.

Jordan is the GOAT, but Pippen was a level below Shaq & Kobe, also factor in how Shaq at his peak was pretty much unstoppable & Kobe at that moment just hit his prime, it's a no brainer.

01 Shaq & Kobe >>>>> Any duo in NBA History.

**JohnMax** · 01-03-2015, 06:40 AM

Most people think Rose, Westbrook, Wade and Lebron are more exciting because they see unedited highlights of those guys going full speed while Jordan highlights are always in half speed.

**AirFederer** · 01-03-2015, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers

There is always that one poster who is just clueless.

Jordan is the GOAT, but Pippen was a level below Shaq & Kobe, also factor in how Shaq at his peak was pretty much unstoppable & Kobe at that moment just hit his prime, it's a no brainer.

01 Shaq & Kobe >>>>> Any duo in NBA History.

If you account for defence, like you should, that is simply not true. Pip was not the scorer those guys were, but I'd pick him over Kobe 10/10.

**Mr Feeny** · 01-03-2015, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers

There is always that one poster who is just clueless.

Jordan is the GOAT, but Pippen was a level below Shaq & Kobe, also factor in how Shaq at his peak was pretty much unstoppable & Kobe at that moment just hit his prime, it's a no brainer.

01 Shaq & Kobe >>>>> Any duo in NBA History.

Are you a moron? Did you just definitively state that Shaq and Kobe > any other duo and call ME clueless? How old are you?

85,87 Magic and Kareem > Shaq and Kobe
92,93,96,97 MJ and Pippen > Shaq and Kobe

and that is a no brainer. Don't put that 2001 duo anywhere near these guys. You're just showing your age.

**Mr Feeny** · 01-03-2015, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by AirFederer

If you account for defence, like you should, that is simply not true. Pip was not the scorer those guys were, but I'd pick him over Kobe 10/10.

Shhhh no point in talking sense to a kid. He has no idea who Pippen is. Had to Google him.

**sportjames23** · 01-03-2015, 11:12 AM

3ball, what's it like to live rent free in so many people's heads? It's like you have homes in different area codes.

**3ball** · 01-03-2015, 11:35 AM

.
although today's game has spacing that generates open shots, it takes time to set up those open shots, so the pace is slower.

also, setting up and maintaining the spacing requires that players perpetually remain behind the 3-point line, which limits the range and diversity of player movement on the floor - the spacing often looks rigid and marching-band-like with predictable setups and less instinctive player movements.

and of course, the very intent of spacing - to get open shots - ends up commodotizing players skills, since anyone can make open shots, as you can see below: patty mills, to green, to splitter, to diaw.

otoh, in the absence of spacing to generate the type of open shots that anyone can make, previous eras required a higher level of individually-unique skill to make better-contested shots..

also, without needing to set up spacing and restrict player-movement by keeping players behind the 3-point line, teams played much faster, players made quicker decisions, and the game was played more instinctively.

**AirFederer** · 01-03-2015, 11:52 AM

GOAT duo!

And it's confirmed that Pip is ten times the in game dunker that Lebron is.

**ralph_i_el** · 01-03-2015, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by 3ball

i'll always prefer basketball where great individual plays are consistently needed to win, which only happened in previous eras because there was no spacing or clear lane to get open shots, and players had no choice but to make great individual plays like the GIF below.

This only happened in previous eras because of illegal D rules.
1-on-1 basketball is not as exciting as watching an offense like the Spurs just demolish teams with spacing/passing/and shooting.

Basketball is more free now. I also contest your point that players were more skilled then. With the removal of hand-checking we've seen 100 skinny guards who wouldn't have made it back in the day, who are absolute wizards with the ball and can shoot the lights out. We have 15 point guards in the league this year who can do things that maybe 5 guards at any given time could have done back then.

Originally Posted by 3ball

also, setting up and maintaining the spacing requires that players perpetually remain behind the 3-point line, which limits the range and diversity of player movement on the floor - the spacing often looks rigid and marching-band-like with predictable setups and less instinctive player movements.

...seriously? When was the last time you watched a game and saw 3 offensive players crowded on one side of the court doing ****ING NOTHING like back before the rule changes (and for a few years afterwards while everyone figured out team basketball)? In todays NBA you have to be able to shoot or you kill the offense even when you're away from the ball. in MJ's day you could plant non-shooters away from the ball and then ****in ISO....and when you have MJ you win because 1-on-1 no guard ever did it better. Today MJ would need shooters just like any star needs shooters, or he'd have 2 guys draped all over him every damn play. I know you can show me some .gifs of individual plays where either illegal D wasn't called, or MJ drove the lane when his own men were in the paint.....but I'm talking every play.

Watch any Wizards game from before last season. Wall can get by 1 man AT WILL....but when your shooters are guys like Nick Young and Jordan Crawford, and you start two non-shooting big men, EVERY TIME he'd get by his man, 2-3 defenders had feet in the paint and were staring right at him. MJ would face that same shit. Obviously he's MJ and he'd make it work. He'd still probably be the best player in the league, but there is no way in hell he'd be doing it the same way he did it in the 90's.

**97 bulls** · 01-03-2015, 01:35 PM

Jordan and Pippen are the GOAT duo. As far as accomplishments, theyre unmatched. Six Championships in basically 8 years together. The only duo to ever win 70+ games which is the best record ever. They own the second best record ever. Never lost while having homecourt, they complemented each other well, both were entertaing. No duo can match what they did together. I could go on but I don't see a need

**fpliii** · 01-03-2015, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by 3ball

far superior

Not that you're wrong (it's a matter of opinion; I might agree with you, might disagree, not sure which I prefer), but John Wooden was a big fan of the introduction of the 3pt line. In his book "Practical Modern Basketball" (page 402 in my edition), he noted:

The Three-Point Goal

There has been considerable discussion and experimentation in the last several years in regard to this new rule, which was adopted for the 1986-87 season. Although there seems to be a favorable reaction to the rule by most coaches, many feel the 19-feet, 9-inch distance is too close.

I personally concur with this reaction as I feel the distance should be a minimum of 21 feet. However, the 1986-87 season provided a good test.

If the rule was adopted to discourage the use of zone defenses, then I think it is wrong. However, if it was to diminish some of the physical play in the deep-post area and cut down on fouls, then it certainly was worth adopting. Not only is the latter thought a good possibility, but the rule may help the smaller, quicker player by forcing the defense to extend out a little farther and thus open up more driving room for the more maneuverable player.

Since I think that basketball was meant to be a game of finesse and maneuverability rather than physical strength and brute force, I am hopeful that this rule may lead us back toward that style of play.

I don't know if one is superior to the other (I'm a huge fan of the low post game, and the back-to-the-basket style isn't encouraged as much today), but they are pretty distinctly different play-styles.

**hitmanyr2k** · 01-03-2015, 04:12 PM

I think Jordan and Pippen would murder the league as it currently is. They were just too skilled and athletic. They could play on-ball, off-ball, slash, catch and shoot and both had great post games. And on top of that they would have free reign in the paint with no worry of being clobbered and no legit 7 footers in their way. They could dunk or finish over any of these guys in the paint with ease today.

**97 bulls** · 01-03-2015, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k

I think Jordan and Pippen would murder the league as it currently is. They were just too skilled and athletic. They could play on-ball, off-ball, slash, catch and shoot and both had great post games. And on top of that they would have free reign in the paint with no worry of being clobbered and no legit 7 footers in their way. They could dunk or finish over any of these guys in the paint with ease today.

Too true. Especially in the case of Pippen. Can you imagine the damage he would do defensively today with him not having to guard a man and can freely roam. The DPOY award would be his until he didn't want it.

**3ball** · 01-03-2015, 05:45 PM