Westbrook a bad fit in Houston

[Turbo Slayer]

he's good but he needs the ball in his hands, this is going to be like wades first year w lebron, but worse.

good luck, though!

i could be wrong, anything can happen

Yeah agreed. It gonna be ugly taking turns being the ''man''. Yikes.

[DoctorP]

This might be the greatest expose 3ball thread ever.

This guy doesn't understand simple basketball.

[Turbo Slayer]

yea but hes an asshole that made fun of hardens gayness or nipples or something. hardens the man on the team so that wasnt gonna fly

I thought Harden and Chris Paul had great chemistry. They were featured in many State Farm commercials.

Damn shame.

[LoneyROY7]

"nOn-LiVe dRIBBle JaB-STePs"

Presented to you by ISH's resident senial retard...3BALL!!!!!

[DoctorP]

Yeah agreed. It gonna be ugly taking turns being the ''man''. Yikes.

[hiphopanonymous]

its not semantics it's a lack of consistency in language and definition. two nerds talking in 2 different languages thinking their talking the same language. someone may be right but who cares

Doctor P you play as well right? Saw your post in the streetball forum

Regardless of what they're arguing about correct me if I'm wrong, a live dribble just means the dribble hasn't been used up yet? Both offensive players had all their options. So the way I was viewing both the MJ and the Harden gifs in question was that both of them were live dribble situations yes? Both looked to be about the same scenario with only minor differences to me, both were trying to use a jab. MJ used a jab a fraction of a second sooner than Harden did which is why I think 3ball considered it different but technically speaking - both were live dribble situation drives I thought correct?

[LoneyROY7]

Doctor P you play as well right? Saw your post in the streetball forum

Regardless of what they're arguing about correct me if I'm wrong, a live dribble just means the dribble hasn't been used up yet? Both offensive players had all their options. So the way I was viewing both the MJ and the Harden gifs in question was that both of them were live dribble situations yes? Both looked to be about the same scenario with only minor differences to me, both were trying to use a jab. MJ used a jab a fraction of a second sooner than Harden did which is why I think 3ball considered it different but technically speaking - both were live dribble situation drives I thought correct?

You're spot on. You understand basic basketball my friend.

[hiphopanonymous]

You're spot on. You understand basic basketball my friend.

I respect both of your and 3balls positions so if he had some semantic difference with it I'm curious to hear specifically what it was - I swear I saw clips of him playing and he looked like he knew the game, I don't believe he's actually uninformed even if that is universally considered a live dribble to most. Could also just be the contagious pissing contests on here acting as a wedge between the discussion

[3ball]

3ball said this gif was a "live-dribble jab-step".



Whereas the gif he posted of MJ was not.

That's a jab step BEFORE he dribbles, so that's what I was talking about, and that's what I posted with MJ

Harden's pre-dribble jab step is weak though and not a go-to move like it was for MJ - Harden can't live off that move

Harden needs a live dribble to have a go-to move because he lacks off-ball footwork - no drop-step (1-step vertical), no elite triple-threat ability (your gif above), no post game whatsoever.... ...

it's an entire way of playing that he either lacks entirely (post, drop-step), or is weak at it (triple-threat/jab step)..

You clearly missed the argument.

^^^ This play occurred with 1 minute left in OT of Game 3 with the score tied - MJ catches the ball in the danger zone (close to the hoop), so the defense is forced to double rather than give MJ an iso that deep and at such a critical juncture

Now compare this skillset to what a defense faces with Harden - Harden would be 30 feet from the hoop and calling for a screen - a standard setup that the defense has gotten really good at defending so late in the game

It's night and day - MJ was dimensions superior to today's basic ball-dominators..
.

[LoneyROY7]

When I orginally posted this gif:



You immediately said:

that's a jab step off a live dribble dumbass

damn you dumb as shit

Then proceeded to post this gif of MJ in which you claimed it was a "non-live dribble jab-step".



Explain that please.

[3ball]

When I orginally posted this gif:



You immediately said:



Then proceeded to post a gif of MJ in which you claimed was a "non-live dribble jab-step".

Explain that please.

I missed the harden gif where he does the pre-dribble jab step - but once I saw it, I commented on it in the previous post above

And those gifs of MJ were also pre-dribble jab steps - the difference is that MJ lived off his pre-dribble jab step, whereas Harden can't, and prefers a less effective live dribble

Also, notice that gif of MJ vs the Lakers above - non-live-dribble moves - it's an entire skillset and footwork that Harden doesn't have, so he can't put defenses in impossible spots like MJ did

Harden needs a high screen roll iso to do his work, which is easy to defend... Whereas MJ could go catch the ball 12 feet from the hoop give the defense fits, while facilitating ball movement and teammate play-making capacity... That's the difference between 6/6 and everything else..

[LoneyROY7]

I missed the harden gif where he does the pre-dribble jab step - but once I saw it, I commented on it in the previous post above

And those gifs of MJ were also pre-dribble jab steps - the difference is that MJ lived off his pre-dribble jab step, whereas Harden can't, and prefers a less effective live dribble

Also, notice that gif of MJ vs the Lakers above - non-live-dribble moves - it's an entire skillset and footwork that Harden doesn't have, so he can't put defenses in impossible spots like MJ did

Harden needs a high screen roll iso to d his work, which is easy to defend... MJ could go catch the ball 12 feet from the hoop give the defense fits... That's the difference between 6/6 and everything else

Ahhh, so you were wrong. Got it.

[hiphopanonymous]

That's a jab step BEFORE he dribbles, so that's what I was talking about, and that's what I posted with MJ

Harden's pre-dribble jab step is weak though and not a go-to move like it was for MJ - Harden can't live off that move

Harden needs a live dribble to have a go-to move because he lacks off-ball footwork - no drop-step (1-step vertical), no elite triple-threat ability (your gif above), no post game whatsoever.... ...

it's an entire way of playing that he either lacks entirely (post, drop-step), or is weak at it (triple-threat/jab step)..






^^^ This play occurred with 1 minute left in OT of Game 3 with the score tied - MJ catches the ball in the danger zone (close to the hoop), so the defense is forced to double rather than give MJ an iso that deep and at such a critical juncture

Now compare this skillset to what a defense faces with Harden - Harden would be 30 feet from the hoop and calling for a screen - a standard setup that the defense has gotten really good at defending so late in the game

It's night and day - MJ was dimensions superior to today's basic ball-dominators..
.

So their bread and butter clearly isn't identical then. MJ was extremely effective moving off the ball, but isn't Harden arguably extremely effective in his own way, on the ball?

Meaning didn't they both then basically play to their strengths as one would expect?

Or is the underlying point that he won't gel with Westbrook as a result? What do you think about Westbrook becoming the off ball player between the two of them?

[DoctorP]

Doctor P you play as well right? Saw your post in the streetball forum

Regardless of what they're arguing about correct me if I'm wrong, a live dribble just means the dribble hasn't been used up yet? Both offensive players had all their options. So the way I was viewing both the MJ and the Harden gifs in question was that both of them were live dribble situations yes? Both looked to be about the same scenario with only minor differences to me, both were trying to use a jab. MJ used a jab a fraction of a second sooner than Harden did which is why I think 3ball considered it different but technically speaking - both were live dribble situation drives I thought correct?

yeah, i play but I dont know exact definitions so I'm guessing any time you can take a step and it's within the realm of the rules it's a live dribble. so if you take a jab step and can then take steps to drive that is a live dribble. If you jab and must shoot because taking a step would be a travel, then that's not a live dribble. You must pass or shoot at that point. Thats the Kobe pumpfake haha

[3ball]

Ahhh, so you were wrong. Got it.

No, harden can't play off-ball and lacks that skillset

I've spent the last page explaining this common knowledge, while you got confused about what a pre-dribble jab step is

Ultimately, Harden's skillset needs a high screen roll iso to do his work, which is easy to defend... Whereas MJ could go catch the ball 12 feet from the hoop give the defense fits - and this off-ball method of getting stats facilities ball movement and teammate play-making capacity...

That's the difference between 6/6 and everything else - it wasn't just PPG that made MJ the goat scorer, it was the WAY he scored allowed goat teamwork and maximum teammate growth (they get to actually have the ball in their hands)