Why does Duncan get a pass for winning bronze in his prime?

[stalkerforlife]

Tim only takes credit when his team wins, not the other way around. He is better than Lebron though (big deal) and inferior to kobe (water is wet)

[Mr. Jabbar]

gotta love how "stiffler" shows that donkey whos the boss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFW-yxe13lo

[stalkerforlife]

gotta love how "stiffler" shows that donkey whos the boss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFW-yxe13lo

lmao one of the GOAT scenes.

[DMAVS41]

I feel BPM captures defense in ways PER can't (well given) but given it is from a regression from RAPM which is so NEW we can't use it for any meaningful analysis but on NEW players, it's again the best we have for historical information.

Given we're talking hall of fame and a single metric...I think I"m advocating a better method than what is used now. I"m not saying it's perfect or remotely close.

Well yea...it's not worthless....like I said.

I'm just saying there are certain players that are better represented in the stats...especially box score derivative stats...than others.

I agree with your broad take on this...I'd just want, in any discussion, to point out that BPM, like any metric, is not designed to tell you who the better player is...nor is it good for comparing players not playing similar roles.

[sportjames23]

I'm not sure Duncan is the best basketball player of his era. He's just the best NBA player of his era.

Since the NBA is the pinnacle of basketball, shouldn't the best NBA player be the best basketball player, too?

[TheBigVeto]

Every player in NBA history, with the exception of Kobe Bryant, is excused from their failures.

How can you possibly defend Duncan winning bronze for team USA in his prime? You can't. He embarrassed our nation and quite frankly, I don't consider him American and I have no clue how he played for our great nation.

THAT is a HUGE reason why Kobe is ahead of him all time. Kobe is 2nd or 3rd and Duncan is 4, 5, or 6.

He doesn't get a pass for that.

But he's still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe.

[Magic 32]

Not a good team.

Still gets too much of a pass.

[dhsilv]

Since the NBA is the pinnacle of basketball, shouldn't the best NBA player be the best basketball player, too?

People become specialists at things created by the NBA rules. When the rules dramatically are different, not everyone is going to easily transition the same. Duncan certainly is adaptable and has been, but clearly he couldn't adapt that quickly to the international rules. He really struggled with it.

Or maybe he just had a bad run?

[Gileraracer]

Because he had LeBronze in his team

[kennethgriffin]

gotta love how "stiffler" shows that donkey whos the boss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFW-yxe13lo

i cant ****in believe they cut the scene off right when it was about to go into the sound of silence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLfCnGVeL4

[dhsilv]

Well yea...it's not worthless....like I said.

I'm just saying there are certain players that are better represented in the stats...especially box score derivative stats...than others.

I agree with your broad take on this...I'd just want, in any discussion, to point out that BPM, like any metric, is not designed to tell you who the better player is...nor is it good for comparing players not playing similar roles.

I agree with the plus minus having more power. My issues is using PER over bpm of the box score metrics. Again bpm uses the box scores but is a regression against the plus minus metrics. IMO it seems to capture defense where as PER *almost* completely seems to miss it.

Now I personally like to look at PER, WS, and VORP and looks for players who oddly seems to miss in one of the metrics or scores oddly high.

As for needing to compare similar roles, that's ideal, but to me at least outside of defensive players who don't seem to get blocks or steals and point guards that seem to do well but somehow don't get high assists they seem to compare pretty well.

So for example if we take Duncan vs Kobe, sure they have had different roles and played different positions. They however both filled the box scores as you'd expect. There might be some bias, but Duncan's absolute dominance in the box score stats seems pretty convincing to me to his superiority. Unless you define different roles differently at least.

[JohnFreeman]

Can't criticise the gays

[rmt]

No Pop, no Ws

And additionally to winning bronze him and his team got battered by Timmys own teammate in Manu who carried his team to Gold. Which is honestly one of the more impressive feats in basketball

Pop was there as an assistant coach.

This was a case of a REAL TEAM who had played together for many years playing a bunch of mostly young players (8 of them age 24 and under) thrown together to sell jerseys. Lebron, Wade, Carmelo, Okefor - rookie or 1st year players.

[rmt]

Someone please refresh my memory - where were KG, Jermaine O'Neal, Kobe, Kidd, etc? Maybe the terrorist threat played a role?

[Prime_Shaq]

That team was poorly put together.
Was run by ball-dominant ISO guards like Iverson & Marbury and had a bunch of really young guys who couldn't shoot.
I also thought the coaching staff did a poor job overall. Don't remember if they were really involved enough or if they sat back expecting their superior talent to get it done.



Just a super young team with few experienced big names that were naturally good team players with good portability.
Wade, Bron & Melo were all Rook's I believe.

Not sure how much blame Duncan really deserves for them failing.
Clearly the team had major issues unrelated to him.

Marbury,Okafor,Jefferson... Yup...