Is Luka Doncic the greatest 20 yrs old ever in NBA history?

[StrongLurk]

He's up there for sure. I would still take Lebron at this point.

[warriorfan]

It isn't a myth that he had 42/15/7 and 3 steals (14 of 23 from the field, 14 of 14 from the foul line) in game 7 of the finals at age 20 against a stacked Philly team.

lmao

[tontoz]

To give some perspective on statistical comparisons last year the average team, in this case Toronto, had 103 possessions per game. The slowest paced team had 100 possessions per game.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/sta...ate=2019-06-14

Going back to 2004 the average team had 93.5 possessions per game. The fastest team had 97 possessions which is 3 less than the slowest team last season.


https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/sta...ate=2004-06-16

[AlternativeAcc.]

He’s about as polished as any I’ve seen but today’s league makes it so hard to even compare historically which a question like this demands. Much as we hate on him now Carmelo at 20 was leading a 50 win team in the west. Luka has way better numbers but I don’t know how to translate the numbers.

Giannis is doing 29/14/8 on 59% shooting which is obviously an early season thing but....his numbers last year were unprecedented too. Hardens scoring has gone up 7 years in a row. He did 36 a game last year and is at 37 now.

A lot of numbers guys do today look weird compared to previous legends. We only giving the guys we like full credit for their numbers then going all “But he couldn’t do that in 01” on the rest?

Does doing Bird like numbers in 2019 make you Larry Bird?

I’d say no. Some say yes.

Hard to find the middle. Trae Young is gonna do better numbers than most HOF points were used to this year. That mean he’s better at 21 than prime Hardaway, Price, and Isiah Thomas?

We are all going to have to decide how much we credit the pace and space era production while we try to figure out where these young guys stand.

Here's a crazy concept... players have gotten better offensively


There's better talent and there's more of it. Simple.


Put Trae in the 80's and he's chucking 30 footers and averaging 35ppg, it's unstoppable in any era

[tontoz]

Here's a crazy concept... players have gotten better offensively


There's better talent and there's more of it. Simple.


Put Trae in the 80's and he's chucking 30 footers and averaging 35ppg, it's unstoppable in any era

You are overlooking the rules changes. For example pace increased about 3 possessions per game last year relative to the year before.

The reason is a rules change. After an offensive rebound the shot clock is reset to 14 instead of 24 previously leading to more possessions and more shot attempts. It has nothing to do with the skill of the players.

There have been several rules changes over the years making it easier to score.

It isn't a coincidence that Iverson had his highest scoring year ever at age 30 after they eliminated the hand check 15 years ago. It isn't a coincidence that Nash won 2 MVPs right after the rules change.

[hiphopanonymous]

Here's a crazy concept... players have gotten better offensively


There's better talent and there's more of it. Simple.


Put Trae in the 80's and he's chucking 30 footers and averaging 35ppg, it's unstoppable in any era

[Kblaze8855]

Here's a crazy concept... players have gotten better offensively


There's better talent and there's more of it. Simple.


Put Trae in the 80's and he's chucking 30 footers and averaging 35ppg, it's unstoppable in any era

The first time he misses a 30 footer with 17 seconds on the shot clock with a big having good post position he

[DoctorP]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]The first time he misses a 30 footer with 17 seconds on the shot clock with a big having good post position he

[iamgine]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]The first time he misses a 30 footer with 17 seconds on the shot clock with a big having good post position he

[kentatm]

This guy was balling on a professional team in Europe winning championships at the age of 17.

The bulk of ISH as recently as 5 years ago would have said that college ball is >>> EuroLeague.

[Kblaze8855]

In this case we have to assume he's allowed to do it because...well maybe he made 100/100 in practice or something and have a coach who understood the math. Just like you have to assume he somehow grew up like that and assume no injury. Not like it's unprecedented either. I mean, Pete Maravich was given a lot of leeway. Trae could be just as unique as Pete had he played back then.

Im sure Craig Hodges was wet in practice. He made 24 in a row in the 3 point shootout and nobody gave a shit when it was time to play real games. Abdul Rauf could make 100+ in a row in the 90s just like he does now in his 40s. They still didnt let him do it. Paul Westhead wouldnt give a shit. Like....at all. But there arent many. You cant blame coaches for doing the ONLY thing that had worked for most of their lives. It was play inside or lose. Now its shoot or lose. If you drop Kevin Mchale into this league on most teams...they arent gonna just let him black hole it for 2 points. Not like he did at least. Hed have to expand on his(already better than people think) shooting and mix it up.

The league leader in post ups gets like 9....and doesnt shoot most of them. Mchale cant be himself with 6 post touches a night. But hed have to figure something out.

The times only bend for the people who prove dominant the way they do it and im not sure Trae would get that chance before at least...the mid 90s.

Pistol Pete played wild relative to his times...but it was mostly his flair. Not shot selection. He mostly shot 12-20 footers. Hed be chastised for taking too many midrange shots today until he adjusted.....which he easily could. And even with the room he had to operate he wasnt considered nearly as good as we consider him in retrospect. The Hawks wanted to trade him for like 2 years and couldnt get anyone to take him. The only way they got rid of him was his college area getting the Jazz and needing him to sell tickets for the expansion team. Players...coaches....GMs....they thought he was too wild even when his shots went in.

They are gonna take Trae Young shooting literal 32 footers off the dribble?

Hed be a good player....just have to play differently. Especially at his age. Those old vets wouldnt stand for some of this. Pistol Pete didnt shoot those shots and still got in fights with teammates. Literal fights. His coach Cotton(who was one of the more forward thinkers in terms of running and letting guys be themselves) hated him. Pete got suspended over fights with him too.

You had to defer to the bigs back then....or at least the forwards. Trae could figure something out im sure....but he cant just come down and launch a 30+ footer for a laugh like he sometimes does now. You cant pull that shit on those old school bigs and coaches. Someone would literally punch him in the face.

[Nashty]

Yes. Right now he has better BPM and PER than any other 20 year old ever, and these are pace adjusted stats. And he also plays more mature than any 20 year old ever, and is a leader of a winning team that has no other stars (Porzingis is not playing like a star)

[iamgine]

Im sure Craig Hodges was wet in practice. He made 24 in a row in the 3 point shootout and nobody gave a shit when it was time to play real games. Abdul Rauf could make 100+ in a row in the 90s just like he does now in his 40s. They still didnt let him do it. Paul Westhead wouldnt give a shit. Like....at all. But there arent many. You cant blame coaches for doing the ONLY thing that had worked for most of their lives. It was play inside or lose. Now its shoot or lose. If you drop Kevin Mchale into this league on most teams...they arent gonna just let him black hole it for 2 points. Not like he did at least. Hed have to expand on his(already better than people think) shooting and mix it up.

The league leader in post ups gets like 9....and doesnt shoot most of them. Mchale cant be himself with 6 post touches a night. But hed have to figure something out.

The times only bend for the people who prove dominant the way they do it and im not sure Trae would get that chance before at least...the mid 90s.

Pistol Pete played wild relative to his times...but it was mostly his flair. Not shot selection. He mostly shot 12-20 footers. Hed be chastised for taking too many midrange shots today until he adjusted.....which he easily could. And even with the room he had to operate he wasnt considered nearly as good as we consider him in retrospect. The Hawks wanted to trade him for like 2 years and couldnt get anyone to take him. The only way they got rid of him was his college area getting the Jazz and needing him to sell tickets for the expansion team. Players...coaches....GMs....they thought he was too wild even when his shots went in.

They are gonna take Trae Young shooting literal 32 footers off the dribble?

Hed be a good player....just have to play differently. Especially at his age. Those old vets wouldnt stand for some of this. Pistol Pete didnt shoot those shots and still got in fights with teammates. Literal fights. His coach Cotton(who was one of the more forward thinkers in terms of running and letting guys be themselves) hated him. Pete got suspended over fights with him too.

You had to defer to the bigs back then....or at least the forwards. Trae could figure something out im sure....but he cant just come down and launch a 30+ footer for a laugh like he sometimes does now. You cant pull that shit on those old school bigs and coaches. Someone would literally punch him in the face.

Well that's why I said to assume. It's really not out of logic that a coach would see this guy launching up threes and winning basketball games. And then Trae convincing him that this is a good way to win. Guys back then didn't have that mentality in real games. Not one of them had that mentality, they're not used to it.

About Mchale, I'm sure even today a few teams would give him a chance to blackhole it since he's so dominant in there. If he does well then I don't see why they won't continue to use him that way.

[ralph_i_el]

Im sure Craig Hodges was wet in practice. He made 24 in a row in the 3 point shootout and nobody gave a shit when it was time to play real games. Abdul Rauf could make 100+ in a row in the 90s just like he does now in his 40s. They still didnt let him do it. Paul Westhead wouldnt give a shit. Like....at all. But there arent many. You cant blame coaches for doing the ONLY thing that had worked for most of their lives. It was play inside or lose. Now its shoot or lose. If you drop Kevin Mchale into this league on most teams...they arent gonna just let him black hole it for 2 points. Not like he did at least. Hed have to expand on his(already better than people think) shooting and mix it up.

The league leader in post ups gets like 9....and doesnt shoot most of them. Mchale cant be himself with 6 post touches a night. But hed have to figure something out.

The times only bend for the people who prove dominant the way they do it and im not sure Trae would get that chance before at least...the mid 90s.

Pistol Pete played wild relative to his times...but it was mostly his flair. Not shot selection. He mostly shot 12-20 footers. Hed be chastised for taking too many midrange shots today until he adjusted.....which he easily could. And even with the room he had to operate he wasnt considered nearly as good as we consider him in retrospect. The Hawks wanted to trade him for like 2 years and couldnt get anyone to take him. The only way they got rid of him was his college area getting the Jazz and needing him to sell tickets for the expansion team. Players...coaches....GMs....they thought he was too wild even when his shots went in.

They are gonna take Trae Young shooting literal 32 footers off the dribble?

Hed be a good player....just have to play differently. Especially at his age. Those old vets wouldnt stand for some of this. Pistol Pete didnt shoot those shots and still got in fights with teammates. Literal fights. His coach Cotton(who was one of the more forward thinkers in terms of running and letting guys be themselves) hated him. Pete got suspended over fights with him too.

You had to defer to the bigs back then....or at least the forwards. Trae could figure something out im sure....but he cant just come down and launch a 30+ footer for a laugh like he sometimes does now. You cant pull that shit on those old school bigs and coaches. Someone would literally punch him in the face.

All this is true, but then someone came along and showed them another way. Maybe sending Trae back in time jump-starts that process

If Steph Curry was never born, would the style of play in the modern NBA be different? I think so.

[CodeBreaker]

He's going to be better than MJ and Bron