Prime Vince Carter vs. Prime Tracy McGrady

[StateOfMind12]

Why do people incorporate team success into individual player arguments? I mean it's simple, the question isnt/wasn't team evaluated, or which prime lasted longer between the two. Question was who was the better player in their prime, and it's clearly McGrady.

So you don't think a prime could be better if it is longer? It's not like McGrady was on another level in his peak either. Their peaks were actually comparable and close, Mcgrady clearly had the better peak than VC did but not easily better.

The word you are thinking of is peak.

[Fudge]

So you don't think a prime could be better if it is longer? It's not like McGrady was on another level in his peak either. Their peaks were actually comparable and close, Mcgrady clearly had the better peak than VC did but not easily better.

The word you are thinking of is peak.

Mcgradys "prime" years from 00 to 04 were better individual seasons than Vince has ever produced. Isn't that the OP's question?

[DaHeezy]

Why do people incorporate team success into individual player arguments? I mean it's simple, the question isnt/wasn't team evaluated, or which prime lasted longer between the two. Question was who was the better player in their prime, and it's clearly McGrady.

Agreed. In terms of pure skill there are only a few who could match McGrady during his career. I could only think of Kobe and Lebron with all around talent. Although some of McGrady's skillset was insane. McGrady was such a slick ball handler. Plus his pull up range was almost undefined. Not the greatest 3-point shooter, but he did pull up from 3-4 feet from the 3-point line with ease.

[Beebo]

T-mac was a more complete player. Offensively and defensively, t-mac was the superior player.

On a sidenote, threads like these make me(raptor fan) sad. Just imagine what it could've been if t-mac continued to play with VC on the raps.

[StateOfMind12]

Mcgradys "prime" years from 00 to 04 were better individual seasons than Vince has ever produced. Isn't that the OP's question?

I'm not sure but that is not how I would define and compare primes though. I really don't care if your peak was great if you weren't really able to sustain it to that level or even close to that level.

Otherwise I would be telling you Prime Bill Walton was better than Prime Tim Duncan. I think Peak Bill Walton might have been better than Peak Tim Duncan but not prime. There is a slight difference. Another example would be Peak Hakeem over Peak Shaq but not prime Hakeem over prime Shaq.

[moe94]

Peak T-Mac is arguably better than Kobe. No idea why people lop him in with Carter and Iverson.

[Fudge]

I'm not sure but that is not how I would define and compare primes though. I really don't care if your peak was great if you weren't really able to sustain it to that level or even close to that level.

Otherwise I would be telling you Prime Bill Walton was better than Prime Tim Duncan. I think Peak Bill Walton might have been better than Peak Tim Duncan but not prime. There is a slight difference. Another example would be Peak Hakeem over Peak Shaq but not prime Hakeem over prime Shaq.

Huh? Aren't "prime" years their best years as a player statistically/successfully? Or the best of a player they can be? If so I don't see your argument for Vince. McGradys "prime" in 2003 alone was on par with Kobe as the best 2 in the L individually. I considered Carter at his prime 2nd tier with the likes of Ray Allen, Pierce, AI (you can put him up there with Kobe and Mcgrady as well), etc.

I mean sure if anything, the only thing that Carter had on McGrady was that his peak lasted much longer. I'll give him that.

[StateOfMind12]

Huh? Aren't "prime" years their best years as a player statistically/successfully?

I would define this as prime.

Or the best of a player they can be?

......And I define this as peak.

I define Prime by the years in which a player performed at or close to their best. Primes can often be anywhere from 5 to 7 or more years, and for the most part this defines who they were as a player.

[fefe]

I'm a huge VC homer, but I agree with this.
Peak T-Mac should be compared to peak Kobe, and noone else. Tmac is probably better.
T-Mac's peak season is probably ranked very high all time...

Even if we are talking about prime years, from 00-01 to 06-07 T-Mac's was not tmuch shorter than Carter's, who played his best between 99-00 and 06-07, so basically only one year longer.

99-00 T-Mac (15,4 6,3 3,3) < [COLOR="DarkGreen"]Carter (25,7 5,8 3,9)[/COLOR]
00-01 [COLOR="DarkGreen"]T-Mac (26,8 7,5 4,8)[/COLOR] = [COLOR="DarkGreen"]Carter (27,6 5,5 3,9)[/COLOR]
01-02 [COLOR="DarkGreen"]T-Mac (25,6 7,9 5,3)[/COLOR] = [COLOR="DarkGreen"]Carter (24,7 5,2,4,0)[/COLOR]
02-03 [COLOR="Red"]T-Mac (32,1 6,5 5,5)[/COLOR] > [COLOR="Blue"]Carter (20,6 4,4 3,3)[/COLOR]
03-04 [COLOR="Red"]T-Mac (28,0 6,0 5,5)[/COLOR] > [COLOR="Blue"]Carter (22,5 4,8 4,8)[/COLOR]
04-05 [COLOR="DarkGreen"]T-Mac (25,7 6,2 5,7)[/COLOR] = [COLOR="DarkGreen"]Carter (24,5 5,2 4,2) [/COLOR]
05-06 [COLOR="DarkGreen"]T-Mac (24,4 6,5 4,8)[/COLOR] = [COLOR="DarkGreen"]Carter (24,2 5,8 4,3) [/COLOR]
06-07 [COLOR="DarkGreen"]T-Mac (24,6 5,3 6,5)[/COLOR] = [COLOR="DarkGreen"]Carter (25,2 6,0 4,8) [/COLOR]
07-08 [COLOR="Blue"]T-Mac (21,6 5,1 5,9)[/COLOR] = [COLOR="Blue"]Carter (21,3 6,0 5,1)[/COLOR]
08-09 T-Mac (15,6 4,4 5,0) < [COLOR="Blue"]Carter (20,8 5,1 4,7)[/COLOR]

I put "=" when the numbers are comparable, even though most of the time T-Mac was slightly better. even this way you can see that T-Mac had a 7 year prime with superstar numbers, while Carter had superstar numbers in only 6 seasons.

McGrady totally fell off after this, while Carter's decline was much slower, but we are comparing primes, and T-Mac wins that easily

[LamarOdom]

I would say Tmac prime and peak were better, his peak can easily be compared to the best all time. His defense was also superior to VC defense.

Tmac and VC was cousins right?

[Dukem]

I would say prime T-Mac was better than Vince Carter and peak wise, T-Mac had a far superior peak.

However career wise, Vince Carter had a superior career. For the majority of T-Macs prime, he had to carry his team on his back so you can't fault him for that.

[L.Kizzle]

If you have VC prime goin to 09, than Mac goes to 08. Just cause he want as good in 07 as he was in 03 doesn't mean he passed his prime. Hell is VCs best season even Macs third best season?

[fefe]

If you have VC prime goin to 09, than Mac goes to 08. Just cause he want as good in 07 as he was in 03 doesn't mean he passed his prime. Hell is VCs best season even Macs third best season?

I had VC's prime till 07...

[Burgz]

Why do people incorporate team success into individual player arguments? I mean it's simple, the question isnt/wasn't team evaluated, or which prime lasted longer between the two. Question was who was the better player in their prime, and it's clearly McGrady.

because basketball is a team sport and numbers alone are not enough to evaluate a player

[Fudge]

I would define this as prime.


......And I define this as peak.

I define Prime by the years in which a player performed at or close to their best. Primes can often be anywhere from 5 to 7 or more years, and for the most part this defines who they were as a player.

So McGrady was easily the best player in their prime if that's how you define it. It really isn't close.