What is with the Scottie Pippen obsession on this board?

[AlphaWolf24]

example of #3 in it's embryonic stages...

Misleading.

The truth is, Kobe stans warp reality.

Yes everybody needs a great sidekick to win, but Kobe WAS the sidekick, while MJ wasn't. Even then, the disparity between MJ and Pip is greater than that of other great players and their teammates.

Except of course, between Shaq and Kobe.

Shaq and Kobe's disparity was bigger, since Shaq outperformed Kobe greater.

My point proven.....


MJ was barely more valuable then Pete Myers and dis fool talkin bout "disparity"....

[bizil]

For one when u factor in defense, Pip is the most skilled SF of all time along with Bron, even over Bird. Pip combined Dr. J athletic ability with many of the skills of Havlicek. He actually followed MJ and Drexler in terms of guys who were freak athletes and awesome all around players. The shit MJ, Drexler, and Pippen were doing hadn't been seen before EVER in bball. So he was a revolutionary player at the SF who has all the accolades besides MVP that you can ask for.

But Pip's place in history is controversial because he wasn't a true number one option like MJ or Clyde. Then he played the SF, which was the deepest position in L right before and even during the start of Pip's run. So we were used to Bird, Doc, Nique, Bernard King,Mullin, English, Aguirre, Dantley, Kiki, Worthy, etc. All of these guys were masters at scoring the ball. All had their unique spin on the SF spot. All were the best at what they did. But out of all the guys I named, the only two that were great all around players were Bird and Mullin. So when Pip got going he was the next great all around SF on the food chain.

So with Pip on a GOAT list, he will rank as high as 4 or 5 for SF's because of the rings and accolades. But in terms of the better player or peak value, many prefer a Batman scorer type like Bernard King or Nique over the better all around player in Pip. Better all around doesn't mean the better player all the time. But the beauty of Pip is if your team needs a PG, SG, or SF u can take Pip and he will do great at all three spots. U can't say that about too many other great SF's. I would say only a Bron, prime GHill, or a Havlicek. Maybe a Barry, Bird, or Mullin cause they had great passing skill. But I don't think they had the pace or motor like G Hill, Pip, or Hondo. Plus Bird, Barry, or Mullin couldn't defend a PG like the other three could.

[97 bulls]

Awful example. KAJ played for 20 seasons, while PP has played for 13 years. If PP gets up to 20 seasons his average will drop to below 17.

Exactly. And if you were to X out the years kareem played as an old man, his career ppg would probably be around 28-29.

The parallel is that pippen played 18 years as opposed to the players that are in their prime that they're being compared to.

[andgar923]

Exactly. And if you were to X out the years kareem played as an old man, his career ppg would probably be around 28-29.

The parallel is that pippen played 18 years as opposed to the players that are in their prime that they're being compared to.

The biggest issue I've ever taken is with your insistence that Pip could be transplanted without MJ and have the same career.

When in FACT it has been documented repeatedly, that Pip would've never been the same player without MJ's influence. I've always argued that without MJ pushing him, he'd be struggling to even be an all star.

Yes, Pip had some of the tools needed to be a good player, but plenty of players have those coming into the league. What MJ did, was help Pip develop not just his skills but more importantly his mentality.

Again... you can go ahead and start dismissing me and call me all the names in the book, but those are the FACTS according to coaches, players, and Pip himself.

[AlphaWolf24]

The biggest issue I've ever taken is with your insistence that Pip could be transplanted without MJ and have the same career.

When in FACT it has been documented repeatedly, that Pip would've never been the same player without MJ's influence. I've always argued that without MJ pushing him, he'd be struggling to even be an all star.

Yes, Pip had some of the tools needed to be a good player, but plenty of players have those coming into the league. What MJ did, was help Pip develop not just his skills but more importantly his mentality.

Again... you can go ahead and start dismissing me and call me all the names in the book, but those are the FACTS according to coaches, players, and Pip himself.

So he goes to college as a water boy , works his tail off to just make the practice squad , works his azz off for 2 years straight to go from walk on in college to a top NBA Lottery Pick.....

and MJ made him have a stronig mentality??.....why couldn't he make all his other teammates mentality strong all those losing seasons without Pippen?

if MJ had so many "bad teammates" (that's why it took so long for him to finally win) why couldn't he make them all better like he did with Pippen??


Jordan stans??

[andgar923]

So he goes to college as a water boy , works his tail off to just make the practice squad , works his azz off for 2 years straight to go from walk on in college to a top NBA Lottery Pick.....

and MJ made him have a stronig mentality??.....why couldn't he make all his other teammates mentality strong all those losing seasons without Pippen?

if MJ had so many "bad teammates" (that's why it took so long for him to finally win) why couldn't he make them all better like he did with Pippen??


Jordan stans??

Of course you wouldn't understand, since Kobe collapses under pressure when it counts the most.

[bizil]

Just because many of us don't think Pip was a true number one option DOESN"T mean he wasn't a great player. Pip was a great player no doubt. But me personally I would rather have Nique, Dr. J, or Bernard King over Pip. But I realize on a GOAT list, Pip will probably be ranked higher than Nique, definitely over King because of injury, and just below Doc. But when it comes to guys like Bird, he's a great all around player and number one option. U can say the same about Hondo, Bron, and Barry at the SF. But after than, I would rather have guys like Nique, King, English, Dantley, and Doc. Or guys today like Durant and Melo.

But Pip is the ultimate swiss army knife who can do anything on a bball court in the pound for pound sense. It's just that he's not a number one option. Think about it, if Pip was a number one option he would be ranked in the top 10-15 GOAT players of all time. Because he has all the accolades you want for a GOAT list. And he revolutionized the SF spot. Most have Pip 30-40 on a GOAT list. That tells you right there something. The reason why Pip is that low is because he wasn't a Batman.

[97 bulls]

The biggest issue I've ever taken is with your insistence that Pip could be transplanted without MJ and have the same career.

When in FACT it has been documented repeatedly, that Pip would've never been the same player without MJ's influence. I've always argued that without MJ pushing him, he'd be struggling to even be an all star.

Yes, Pip had some of the tools needed to be a good player, but plenty of players have those coming into the league. What MJ did, was help Pip develop not just his skills but more importantly his mentality.

Again... you can go ahead and start dismissing me and call me all the names in the book, but those are the FACTS according to coaches, players, and Pip himself.

But I've never argued whether or not jordan mentored pippen. I said name me an nba player or any pro athlete that can't attribute their greatness to someone else? Why does pippen get held to such a standard? Would michael jordan be the same great player without the tuteledge of 2 of the greatest coaches ever in phil jackson and dean smith?

[andgar923]

But I've never argued whether or not jordan mentored pippen. I said name me an nba player or any pro athlete that can't attribute their greatness to someone else? Why does pippen get held to such a standard? Would michael jordan be the same great player without the tuteledge of 2 of the greatest coaches ever in phil jackson and dean smith?

Then I apologize, I must've mistaken you with others.

The reason Pip seems to get scrutinized so much, is because people assume that without MJ he'd still be a top 50 player. They create scenarios that transplant the Pip we all know and respect, to scenarios without MJ. But there's no way that we can take the hall of fame Pip without MJ. Also, the argument is never... take MJ and place him in UNLV. It's always "take prime Pip and put him on X situation".

[97 bulls]

My point proven.....


MJ was barely more valuable then Pete Myers and dis fool talkin bout "disparity"....

This is really stretching it. We agree both kobe and pippen have played much bigger roles than they get credit for. But the difference between jordan and myers is drastic. When jordan and rodman replaced myers and grant, the bulls went from 55 wins to 72 wins and a championship.

[97 bulls]

Just because many of us don't think Pip was a true number one option DOESN"T mean he wasn't a great player. Pip was a great player no doubt. But me personally I would rather have Nique, Dr. J, or Bernard King over Pip. But I realize on a GOAT list, Pip will probably be ranked higher than Nique, definitely over King because of injury, and just below Doc. But when it comes to guys like Bird, he's a great all around player and number one option. U can say the same about Hondo, Bron, and Barry at the SF. But after than, I would rather have guys like Nique, King, English, Dantley, and Doc. Or guys today like Durant and Melo.

But Pip is the ultimate swiss army knife who can do anything on a bball court in the pound for pound sense. It's just that he's not a number one option. Think about it, if Pip was a number one option he would be ranked in the top 10-15 GOAT players of all time. Because he has all the accolades you want for a GOAT list. And he revolutionized the SF spot. Most have Pip 30-40 on a GOAT list. That tells you right there something. The reason why Pip is that low is because he wasn't a Batman.

You really need to get away from the batman 1st option stuff. It a lot more involved to leading a team than just being a first option. Bill russell, kevin garnett, ben wallace, dwight howard aren't first option type players, but they were the most important players on their teams.

And why couldn't pippen be a first option? He was on a 55 win team. And they probably would've had the best record had pippen not missed 10 games.

[Jacks3]

Of course you wouldn't understand, since Kobe collapses under pressure when it counts the most.

What an idiot.

[Jacks3]

MJ was barely more valuable then Pete Myers and dis fool talkin bout "disparity"....

this.

[EricForman]

97 Bulls i hope you're paying attention to this thread and seeing what Kobe trolls claim "Jordan barely more valuable than Pete Meyers".

Keep that in mind next time you claim Jordan fans are worst or more delusional or whatever.

[97 bulls]

Then I apologize, I must've mistaken you with others.

The reason Pip seems to get scrutinized so much, is because people assume that without MJ he'd still be a top 50 player. They create scenarios that transplant the Pip we all know and respect, to scenarios without MJ. But there's no way that we can take the hall of fame Pip without MJ. Also, the argument is never... take MJ and place him in UNLV. It's always "take prime Pip and put him on X situation".

Because pippen never got the chance, a legit chance to see what he could do as a first option. And based on what he did in 94 and 95, the possibility is definately there.