The Last Of Us Hype

[West-Side]

TL;DR

Disregarding all games pre-2010 seems to be pretty much the only way you can justify that opinion.

Those games do not allow you to have the same experience for many obvious reasons. If you want to think games 20 years ago are better because of memories you had with them than that's fine; that's your opinion.

Don't try to spoon feed me MY opinion to me.
I have played a lot of the most popular video games like Zelda, Metroid Prime, GoldenEye and while I had incredible memories with those games; I felt different when I played a game like TLoU.

Emotionally I was far more connected with the game; the graphics and the sound were on a completely different level.

To me, I think there are too many people who will pick the old school stuff just to try and sound smart instead of using logic.

Fact is; games have improved a lot over time.
Heck, TLoU isn't even from the current gen; it's from the Ps3 days. A console that had a giant gaming library. The fact that it had the highest gamer score of any console game, tells you that you should respect my opinion.

If your opinion is different that's fine; just don't attempt to tell me that my opinion is crazy when there are thousands upon thousands of gamers who played this game who would agree with my sentiment.

[LJJ]

If we are going to talk about greatness and then say "oh yeah everything with graphics that aren't up to the current standard automatically sucks to me" it becomes a pointless discussion. Like I said, just say you don't rate games from more than 5 years ago then. Fine. You just end up sounding like and idiot, but as you said that's just your opinion.

It devalues the statement "this is one of the greatest games ever released" a lot, but we get the reasoning behind it now.

[West-Side]

If we are going to talk about greatness and then say "oh yeah everything with graphics that aren't up to the current standard automatically sucks to me" it becomes a pointless discussion. Like I said, just say you don't rate games from more than 5 years ago then. Fine. You just end up sounding like and idiot, but as you said that's just your opinion.

It devalues the statement "this is one of the greatest games ever released" a lot, but we get the reasoning behind it now.

I sound like an idiot because I consider The Last Of Us one of the five greatest games ever made? Why don't you give your reasons to the contrary.

I'm not just considering graphics. I'm comparing games relative to their time-frame. TLoU to me is the best game of the PS3/Xbox360 generation.

I think the graphics, sounds, detail, content, characterization were superb. I'm not just considering games that were developed after 2010 either. The fact that is one of the highest rated games both from a critic stand-point and a gamer stand-point simply solidifies my opinion.

It's not like I'm claiming Black Ops or Battlefield Hardline are the best game ever created; I'm talking about a game that won Game Of The Year and received one of the highest reviews in gaming history.

It's quite logical to think that games in the last 10 years give you a superior experience than games on DreamCast, Playstation or super nintendo games.

However, that is not my only rationale. I don't think TLoU is better than Super Mario Bros. 3 or Zelda because of graphics or sound; I think the game is comparable in terms of story telling, characters and the overall enjoyment. TLoU is one of the best written games in history.

Perhaps you don't agree because you prefer a different genre; perhaps you're a big RPG or FPS fan. I respect your opinion, yet you can't respect mine.

[nightprowler10]

Gaming is weird in that in order to properly rate a game, you have to have played it around the time it was released and not many years later. There is more focus on games now more than ever, graphics have the potential to be uber realistic, etc, etc. I can't tell you that Splinter Cell 1 was more enjoyable than the latest one and expect you to agree with me if you played the old one now, 13 years after release. The experience it gave me then cannot be matched by many, many games I play now, but you won't understand that unless you played the game then and compared it to what was out there.

[nightprowler10]

I'm not just considering graphics. I'm comparing games relative to their time-frame. TLoU to me is the best game of the PS3/Xbox360 generation.

I feel very differently. I would easily put the Mass Effect trilogy, Assassin's Creed 2 and Brotherhood, Uncharted 2 and 3, and maybe even the first two Arkham games over it. Many people will think I'm batshit insane for thinking that, but that's just what I enjoyed more.

Different folks, different strokes.

[Thorpesaurous]

Gaming is weird in that in order to properly rate a game, you have to have played it around the time it was released and not many years later. There is more focus on games now more than ever, graphics have the potential to be uber realistic, etc, etc. I can't tell you that Splinter Cell 1 was more enjoyable than the latest one and expect you to agree with me if you played the old one now, 13 years after release. The experience it gave me then cannot be matched by many, many games I play now, but you won't understand that unless you played the game then and compared it to what was out there.

You also kind of have to account for the changes in you, or even your mood at the time. I enjoyed games, and films, and music, and whatever, for much different reasons 10 or 20 or 30 years ago. It's sort of whatever scratches that itch at that moment. I also know I've overlooked games I probably would've loved had I given them the chance, but for whatever reason I just wasn't into it at the time.

[West-Side]

I feel very differently. I would easily put the Mass Effect trilogy, Assassin's Creed 2 and Brotherhood, Uncharted 2 and 3, and maybe even the first two Arkham games over it. Many people will think I'm batshit insane for thinking that, but that's just what I enjoyed more.

Different folks, different strokes.

I would never put Assassin's Creed in the same tier; the other games are all understandable. And you're 100% right.

I mean, your preference matters a lot. For instance, I am a big sports fan, Uncharted & Max Payne fan. I enjoy these games more than say Zelda; a very prestigious franchise.

But when I say The Last Of Us is one of the five best games; I don't think it's foolish to say at all.

1) Development wise; it's one of the best overall games ever made.
2) It's my type of game; I love action-adventure.

I mean I'll never understand how Skyrim is loved by so many; it's extremely glitchy, mediocre character detail and I hate first person. However, as an overall package I can totally understand why it's such a highly rated game. It's extremely deep with a ton of content and is suited towards people who enjoy role-playing games. Not exactly my thing, but I can respect people who like those games.

With TLoU; it's my type of game and has been superbly developed and written.

That's why it's in my top five of all-time.

Example; you put AC up there because you enjoy those types of games. Yet the consensus is that it is not as good as TLoU based on the scores critics and gamers gave each respective game.

[nightprowler10]

I would never put Assassin's Creed in the same tier; the other games are all understandable. And you're 100% right.

Example; you put AC up there because you enjoy those types of games. Yet the consensus is that it is not as good as TLoU based on the scores critics and gamers gave each respective game.

Interesting that you would pick on AC from my post and nothing else, probably because you're not a fan of the games at all. Both AC2 and AC:B got scores of around 90/100, same as Mass Effect and Arkham Asylum.

For some reason you don't put these games on the same tier as the others I mentioned, which is fine - it's your preference - but hundreds of thousands of people feel very differently. Reasons can range from the amazing story, crazy detailed cities, gameplay, etc.

By the way, if I were to go outside of PS3/360 gen games, I would also easily out Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory and FreeSpace 2 over TLOU.... though I'm sure I'm being redundant at this point.

[West-Side]

Interesting that you would pick on AC from my post and nothing else, probably because you're not a fan of the games at all. Both AC2 and AC:B got scores of around 90/100, same as Mass Effect and Arkham Asylum.

For some reason you don't put these games on the same tier as the others I mentioned, which is fine - it's your preference - but hundreds of thousands of people feel very differently. Reasons can range from the amazing story, crazy detailed cities, gameplay, etc.

By the way, if I were to go outside of PS3/360 gen games, I would also easily out Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory and FreeSpace 2 over TLOU.... though I'm sure I'm being redundant at this point.

It's because games like Uncharted 2, Mass Effect, Arkham City were GOTY candidates/winners. They received higher praise from the general gaming world.

Assassin Creed's were never on that level; not even the best in the series Brotherhood/AC2.

Brotherhood: 90 critic - 82 user
AC II: 91 critic - 86 user
The Last Of Us: 95 critic - 91 user (GOTY)
Chaos Theory: 94 critic - 91 user
FreeSpace 2: 91 critic - 89 user

I mean you can like those games better I don't really care; none of them are rated higher by either a) the critics or b) the users.

Chaos Theory is a fantastic game though; I loved it.
Not on TLoU's level to me either. Not only is the game (relative to its time) didn't get the same recognition; the experience you get from the two games is like night and day now.

Hence, one was on XBOX and the other is on PS3/4.

[West-Side]

By the way; Mass Effect 2, Uncharted 2/3, Arkham City got higher scores than the best AC game by a clear margin.

I believe all of those games (excluding Uncharted 3) received between 94-96 critic rating and a higher user score than AC II.

Which is why I outlined AC only; as I feel it's an inferior game to the rest of those games you mentioned.

[outbreak]

If we are going to talk about greatness and then say "oh yeah everything with graphics that aren't up to the current standard automatically sucks to me" it becomes a pointless discussion. Like I said, just say you don't rate games from more than 5 years ago then. Fine. You just end up sounding like and idiot, but as you said that's just your opinion.

It devalues the statement "this is one of the greatest games ever released" a lot, but we get the reasoning behind it now.

I agree with you.

I'd put TLOU in the best games of it's generation for sure but it wouldn't be my best game of all time because there's so many great games that created entire genres when they came out. I can understand if some people put it there (especially if that gen was your first gen of console or if you don't count older gens) but I can't understand when people say it's "10/10" "perect" "flawless" or can't admit it has it's faults.

It gives great experience but it's got flaws, I probably would have enjoyed it more if the paid reviews hadn't overhyped it so much, there were too many reviews calling it perfect that when you played it and saw the AI run and reload right next to you without even noticing you you shook your head and wondered "how is this perfect gameplay?".

Using metacritic to prove a game is better is silly anyway, even the industry has big names talking about how metacritic is total bullshit and needs to be taken out of the industry. I remember when bloodborne came out and we had people giving it 0's on release day for reasons that clearly showed they hadn't played the game, same with sunset overdrive and people were giving it 0's saying it's made for 5 year olds when if they played it they'd see yes it's colourful but it's full of language and violence no 5 year old would be allowed to see/hear, happens to all the consoles because some people have a need to justify their purchases and can't enjoy and admit something is flawed at the same time.

I do like the genre as well, survival horror\adventure games are one of my favourite genres.

[Heavincent]

TLOU is the GOAT.

The enemy AI is actually quite good. I know it's jarring when Ellie runs in front of an enemy, but that's a rare occurrence. I get my ass whooped on grounded difficulty, and not in a cheap way. There were times when a dude would come up behind me while I was distracted with other enemies, and then beat my face in with a pipe...which was amazing. It was almost always my fault when I died, which is good game design. Most games don't have AI as good as TLOU. F.E.A.R is better, and maybe Splinter Cell: Blacklist and Ground Zeroes too...but TLOU is certainly above average. People act like the AI is Skyrim level, which is ridiculous. Play it on a higher difficulty and without the bullshit x ray vision...these dudes are no joke.

The shooting mechanics are excellent. The guns actually feel like legit weapons, not peashooters like a lot of games. Enemies aren't bullet sponges, and neither are you. Ammo is limited, so your aim actually matters. All of this adds a level of intensity not seen in most shooters. And the melee combat is much better than the vast majority of shooters. Show me another game where you can seamlessly transition from shooting a guy to bashing his head against a table (lots of great contextual animations).

In terms of pure stealth, yes, there are games that do it better, like Chaos Theory (GOAT stealth game), but these games don't have combat nearly as good as TLOU. That's what it's so great, because it excels at both action/shooting and sneaking. Most games can do one or the other, but not both.

I haven't even mentioned the other aspects that make it so special, like the writing, characters, atmosphere, sound design, etc.

It's obviously not perfect. No game is. I don't think anyone's trying to argue it's flawless.

I do think The Phantom Pain has a very real chance of dethroning TLOU for me. I'm not gonna EXPECT it to be better, but I think it has a chance.

[Heavincent]

Also, Joel is the GOAT video game protagonist. So much depth to his character.

[West-Side]

I agree with you.

I'd put TLOU in the best games of it's generation for sure but it wouldn't be my best game of all time because there's so many great games that created entire genres when they came out. I can understand if some people put it there (especially if that gen was your first gen of console or if you don't count older gens) but I can't understand when people say it's "10/10" "perect" "flawless" or can't admit it has it's faults.

It gives great experience but it's got flaws, I probably would have enjoyed it more if the paid reviews hadn't overhyped it so much, there were too many reviews calling it perfect that when you played it and saw the AI run and reload right next to you without even noticing you you shook your head and wondered "how is this perfect gameplay?".

Using metacritic to prove a game is better is silly anyway, even the industry has big names talking about how metacritic is total bullshit and needs to be taken out of the industry. I remember when bloodborne came out and we had people giving it 0's on release day for reasons that clearly showed they hadn't played the game, same with sunset overdrive and people were giving it 0's saying it's made for 5 year olds when if they played it they'd see yes it's colourful but it's full of language and violence no 5 year old would be allowed to see/hear, happens to all the consoles because some people have a need to justify their purchases and can't enjoy and admit something is flawed at the same time.

I do like the genre as well, survival horror\adventure games are one of my favourite genres.

1) The key word is "you" wouldn't put it up there; which is fine, agree to disagree.
2) So because there are games who created new genres in the gaming industry; we should somehow hold them in higher regard? So someone like Julius Erving is better than Michael Jordan because he pioneered a lot of the moves we see from players today?
3) I do agree that the AI in TLoU has its problems; in particular the lack of detection by enemies of Joel's allies like Ellie. However, if that's what you want to use as your deliberation than I can pin point issues from every game ever created as well. I think it's a rather silly reason to downgrade the game.

Heck, I can name 4-5 big issues I had with a game like Arkham City or Mass Effect 2 myself; I can name 10+ issues with Skyrim, yet these games are all highly rated.

Anyways, thanks for your detailed post as to why you wouldn't put TLoU as one of the very best. It's definitely one of the best games this generation has to offer (to me: the best); but I also think it goes further than just this generation. I think its greatness will be remembered for years to come and will be a blue-print to all AAA games; it's a game that many developers will use (or do use) as the standard for story-telling, detailed animations and characterization.

Heck, even the developers of Uncharted 4 have said they will use a similar approach to story-telling as they did with TLoU.

Metal Gear Solid director has already praised Naughty Dog for being on the highest tier of characterization and graphic detail. That's coming from one of the most respected and renowned game directors in the business, for decades now.

[West-Side]

TLOU is the GOAT.

The enemy AI is actually quite good. I know it's jarring when Ellie runs in front of an enemy, but that's a rare occurrence. I get my ass whooped on grounded difficulty, and not in a cheap way. There were times when a dude would come up behind me while I was distracted with other enemies, and then beat my face in with a pipe...which was amazing. It was almost always my fault when I died, which is good game design. Most games don't have AI as good as TLOU. F.E.A.R is better, and maybe Splinter Cell: Blacklist and Ground Zeroes too...but TLOU is certainly above average. People act like the AI is Skyrim level, which is ridiculous. Play it on a higher difficulty and without the bullshit x ray vision...these dudes are no joke.

The shooting mechanics are excellent. The guns actually feel like legit weapons, not peashooters like a lot of games. Enemies aren't bullet sponges, and neither are you. Ammo is limited, so your aim actually matters. All of this adds a level of intensity not seen in most shooters. And the melee combat is much better than the vast majority of shooters. Show me another game where you can seamlessly transition from shooting a guy to bashing his head against a table (lots of great contextual animations).

In terms of pure stealth, yes, there are games that do it better, like Chaos Theory (GOAT stealth game), but these games don't have combat nearly as good as TLOU. That's what it's so great, because it excels at both action/shooting and sneaking. Most games can do one or the other, but not both.

I haven't even mentioned the other aspects that make it so special, like the writing, characters, atmosphere, sound design, etc.

It's obviously not perfect. No game is. I don't think anyone's trying to argue it's flawless.

I do think The Phantom Pain has a very real chance of dethroning TLOU for me. I'm not gonna EXPECT it to be better, but I think it has a chance.

Preach on brother; well said.
I am also excited for The Phantom Pain.

I thought GTA V would exceed TLoU; but it didn't.
The story was a mess; although fun, it had no real point behind it. It was no where near as good as San Andreas.

I think Uncharted 4 will reign supreme.
ND has never took this long to develop a game and have repeatedly said they are trying to create the most perfect game they've ever created. I also have NEVER heard them be cocky but they've already said in interview "Uncharted 4 will blow your mind; it's a closure to Nate's adventure with a bang."

There is no company that's better to me; they've consistently impressed me with Jak & Daxter, Crash Bandicoot, Uncharted and TLoU. They aren't Ubisoft or as big as them so they don't create games every year because their staff isn't as big and they really care about their craft.

AC has been getting worse and worse, why? Because a new game comes out every year, it's all about the $$$ for that company.

ND & RockStar are #1.