3ball....Who you got? Kobe or Lebron?

[Mr Feeny]

Unbelievebale. This forum is becoming a cesspit of stan homerism posting the same tired list of stats and redundant arguments. You can hardly find a thread that doesn't descend into the same tired BS as this one. How bout we all just recognize that MJ, Bron and Kobe are three of the great talents of the game and appreciate their contributions to the sport instead of the time wasted doing this daily back and forth shit? I mean, its ya'lls time to waste....but holy fcuk man.

2 of those are top 5 players all time and lead atleast 3 teams to the title as lead dog, won multiple mvps, are 1st and 2nd place respectively in career PER, VORP, playoff PER, playoff VORP.
The other...sticks out like a sore thumb and has never hit 47% in 20 seasons of basketball.
Whats to recognize? We just don't see Kobe as being on the same level of the greats.
That's about it. No shame in being a top 15 player.

[fourkicks44]

Unbelievebale. This forum is becoming a cesspit of stan homerism posting the same tired list of stats and redundant arguments. You can hardly find a thread that doesn't descend into the same tired BS as this one. How bout we all just recognize that MJ, Bron and Kobe are three of the great talents of the game and appreciate their contributions to the sport instead of the time wasted doing this daily back and forth shit? I mean, its ya'lls time to waste....but holy fcuk man.

Word.

I'm not going to be a part of it anymore. It is getting more ridiculous than ever.

[K Xerxes]

And Shaq.

Shaq was the best player for 3 rings, which is the same as Bron. I said 'more than 3 rings'.

Jordan - 91-93, 96-98
Russell - 7+ rings at least
Duncan - 99, 03, 05, 07 (+ arguably 14)
Kareem - 72, 80, arguably 82, arguably 85
Magic - arguably 82, arguably 85, 87, 88

[Dragonyeuw]

Word.

I'm not going to be a part of it anymore. It is getting more ridiculous than ever.

Yeah I think Im in the same boat. But that basically means not particiating in the forum, because theres very few threads that don't devolve into this kind of BS. Spending countless hours literally regurgitating the same arguments ad nauseum. There must be like 10 unique posters, and a bunch of alts agreeing with each other. I think we even have alts of the same poster arguing with each other. Hell, we have posters who you literally don't see anywhere but these threads. Its like they get a phone alert 'ISH: Jordan/ Lebron/ Kobe' and they turn up like clockwork.

[Mr Feeny]

Shaq was the best player for 3 rings, which is the same as Bron. I said 'more than 3 rings'.

Jordan - 91-93, 96-98
Russell - 7+ rings at least
Duncan - 99, 03, 05, 07 (+ arguably 14)
Kareem - 72, 80, arguably 82, arguably 85
Magic - arguably 82, arguably 85, 87, 88

Ah. Fair enough. But I don't think Duncan, Magic or Kareem have strong cases in my opinion.

You could argue that Kareem was the best player in 1980. Statistically, he certainly was. If so, that would put him at 3 fmvps and magic at 2.
If we want to argue that Magic was the best player in 85, we can't also give him 1980 for example.
Kareem's case is pretty tough to make as well because we have to give him 1980 and take it away from Magic AND another title as well.

Duncan might have been the best defensive player on the planet in 2007 but offensively he wasn't at his best was he?

I see what you're saying. We could ARGUE the case for each because it's not totally out of the question but those cases would be tenuous at best in my opinion.
As things stand, Shaq has more CLEAR CUT rings as lead dog than Kareem. It's also true that he certainly maxes out at 3 while Kareem could go up to 4 as you said.

[K Xerxes]

Ah. Fair enough. But I don't think Duncan, Magic or Kareem have strong cases in my opinion.

You could argue that Kareem was the best player in 1980. Statistically, he certainly was. If so, that would put him at 3 fmvps and magic at 2.
If we want to argue that Magic was the best player in 85, we can't also give him 1980 for example.
Kareem's case is pretty tough to make as well because we have to give him 1980 and take it away from Magic AND another title as well.

Duncan might have been the best defensive player on the planet in 2007 but offensively he wasn't at his best was he?

I see what you're saying. We could ARGUE the case for each because it's not totally out of the question but those cases would be tenuous at best in my opinion.
As things stand, Shaq has more CLEAR CUT rings as lead dog than Kareem. It's also true that he certainly maxes out at 3 while Kareem could go up to 4 as you said.

I meant best player on their team, hence leading their team to a ship. Duncan may not have been the NBA's best player in 07, but he was the leader and best player on the Spurs, even though parker won FMVP because they exploited a weak match up against the far over matched Cavs.

For Magic and Kareem, I think both should have ended up with 3 FMVPs. Kareem should have won 80 over Magic. But Magic should have won Worthy's FMVP. No question Worthy balled in game 7 with a 36 point triple double, but Magic put up 21-6-13 over the series on better efficiency. He deserved it overall. And regardless, he was the best player on that team by a clear margin.

So yeah both Magic and Kareem probably should have levelled out at 3 FMVPs, and I guess you could say they led their teams to 3 rings, arguably 4 or 2 each however you want to argue the Magic and Kareem dynamic.

[Mr Feeny]

I meant best player on their team, hence leading their team to a ship. Duncan may not have been the NBA's best player in 07, but he was the leader and best player on the Spurs, even though parker won FMVP because they exploited a weak match up against the far over matched Cavs.

For Magic and Kareem, I think both should have ended up with 3 FMVPs. Kareem should have won 80 over Magic. But Magic should have won Worthy's FMVP. No question Worthy balled in game 7 with a 36 point triple double, but Magic put up 21-6-13 over the series on better efficiency. He deserved it overall. And regardless, he was the best player on that team by a clear margin.

So yeah both Magic and Kareem probably should have levelled out at 3 FMVPs, and I guess you could say they led their teams to 3 rings, arguably 4 or 2 each however you want to argue the Magic and Kareem dynamic.

I don't disagree with any of that. If Lebron were to get one more and play as the clear cut best player, he could separate himself from this pack. Either way, I don't see anyone getting 6 fmvps in a long time.

[SouBeachTalents]

Shaq was the best player for 3 rings, which is the same as Bron. I said 'more than 3 rings'.

Jordan - 91-93, 96-98
Russell - 7+ rings at least
Duncan - 99, 03, 05, 07 (+ arguably 14)
Kareem - 72, 80, arguably 82, arguably 85
Magic - arguably 82, arguably 85, 87, 88

Very knowledgeable poster. It's very close, but I'd give Magic the nod in '82 & '85.

In terms of best player for 3 titles, LeBron, Shaq, & Bird would join the list, Havlicek would have an argument as well ('68, '69, '74)

[3ball]

The simple answer is no one knows. LeBron has never played with someone close to the level of peak Shaq. So we're left with useless speculation once again.

What we do know is that LeBron has led his teams to 3 rings as the induspitable best player, which only Jordan, Russell, Duncan and Kareem/Magic could argue to have achieved more.

No one ever played with a 10-time all-star as their 3rd option.. No one ever team-hopped to play with 2 other superstars and had everyone thinking "not 5, not 6, not 7"

No one ever did these things - ultimately, the excess supporting talent that resulted from Lebron's team-hopping is why his teams could weather his FACTUAL reduction of teammate stats to win a few rings.

But Kobe didn't achieve his stats by reducing his teammate stats, so Lebron's statistical edges mean nothing, just like his team-hopped rings mean nothing.. Would we give Hakeem props if he employed a stat-padding, losing style, but then teamed up with 2 other superstars twice so he can win a few rings?... Of course not.. But the modern cupcake era, that crap flies.

[aj1987]

0ball is basically a retarded spam bot. Dude has never actually watched, heck, or even touched a basketball in his entire life.

Cherrypicking + copy&paste + spamming. That's basically 0ball's posting style.

[SouBeachTalents]

0ball is basically a retarded spam bot. Dude has never actually watched, heck, or even touched a basketball in his entire life.

Cherrypicking + copy&paste + spamming. That's basically 0ball's posting style.

That's basically his lifestyle too