Kareem 1980 Finals MVP

[Ne 1]

For all the greatness of Magic's Game 6, Kareem had 2-3 games in that series vs the Sixers alone with as much impact, if not more (when defense is considered) than Magic had in Game 6 (people forget Wilkes' performance in game 6 as well btw, who also had the best game of his career, but would anyone say he was more valuable during that series than Kareem?) Kareem was unstoppable on offense, he was the defensive anchor (5 freaking blocks a game) I wouldn't even say Magic created as many plays for his teammates as Kareem did in the half court, he was the clutchest player who won games in the 4th quarters for the Lakers...went down to injury in third quarter of game 5, came back in fourth quarter and made clutch shot after clutch shot in the last three minutes to secure the 3-2 lead. But that's not as heroic as Magic's performance because Kareem is a 7 footer who people don't relate with as much.

So I've done some research and apparently a few writers were apparently persuaded by CBS to change their vote in favor of Kareem's popular, charismatic teammate Magic Johnson.



http://books.google.com/books?id=D0a...FSBrSbw&edge=0


Bill Livingston publicly confessed that he and others changed votes to deny Kareem the award because CBS did not want to present to an empty chair.

This was during Kareem’s final season in an effort to clear his conscience and ask forgiveness.

He was 1 of 7 chosen to vote for '80 Finals MVP. After game 6 the tally had Kareem as the winner. CBS didn't want to present to an absent Kareem, so voters were pressured & coerced to change votes.

It’s covered on pgs 140 – 141 of “Kareem”
written in 1990.


On Kareem's farewell tour Bill Livingston confessed "enough of us saps changed our votes to deny Kareem the award by 4-3 count."

This thread isn't meant to diminish or belittle Magic. Anyway I feel he was deserving of the '88 Finals MVP when Worthy won and IMO MVP of the Finals is a pretty useless award since it's based on 4-7 games and with that you have cases like Tony Parker winning MVP over Duncan in '07 and Cedric Maxwell winning over Bird in '81 for example. Even John Starks came within one shot of winning a Finals MVP.

[fpliii]

Thanks for the information, really makes one put the FMVP in perspective.

[dh144498]

inb4 someone comes in and posts something about Kobe robbing Gasol of his FMVP in 2010.

[jlip]

That's an interesting "behind the scenes" read. It's always enlightening to be exposed to the story behind things happening, but honestly, I think that most informed b-ball fans know that Kareem should have been named Finals MVP that year.

[K Xerxes]

I agree with all of this. Kareem was the best player on that team for the entire regular season, playoffs and final until game 6 where he was unfortunately injured and Magic had that historic game. Magic was ridiculously good then, no doubt, but Kareem was simply better and deserved that Finals MVP. Didn't he average like 33-14?

FMVP is such a misleading award anyway; it would be far more accurate and representative of performance if it was a Playoffs MVP.

Thanks for the info, I've always argued that Kareem should have won the FMVP, so this is good to see.

That's an interesting "behind the scenes" read. It's always enlightening to be exposed to the story behind things happening, but honestly, I think that most informed b-ball fans know that Kareem should have been named Finals MVP that year.

I'm not sure, really. I think the knock many people have on Kareem is that out of the five championships he won with the Lakers, he only had one FMVP. It's understandable why the casual fan would think Magic was the 'man' throughout the entire Showtime Lakers era. As it stands, he has won 6 rings and 2 FMVP, but who would argue that Magic was greater than Kareem if Kareem had 6 rings and 3 FMVP?

(I disagree with the notion of ranking players based on accolades, but this is how most casual fans do it. Regardless, I still think kareem was a better player than Magic.)

[Ne 1]

Thanks for the information, really makes one put the FMVP in perspective.

Kareem for people who don't know had....

33/14/5/6 in game 1
38/14/3/5 in game 2 (made many clutch shots but Bobby Jones ended up hitting game winner)
33/14/3/4 in game 3
40/15/4 in game 5 (heroic fourth quarter on a badly sprained ankle. if he doesn't come up big in that fourth quarter, Sixers lead 3-2 and have 2 games to eliminate the Lakers)

He beasted in nearly every game. Magic wasn't the one Sixers were developing a game plan to beat by sending doubles and triples either.

here's highlights of his game 2 performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1kgHXG_Ot8

and highlights of his game 5 performance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMIC4zKK_nE

[fpliii]

Kareem for people who don't know had....

33/14/5/6 in game 1
38/14/3/5 in game 2 (made many clutch shots but Bobby Jones ended up hitting game winner)
33/14/3/4 in game 3
40/15/4 in game 5 (heroic fourth quarter on a badly sprained ankle. if he doesn't come up big in that fourth quarter, Sixers lead 3-2 and have 2 games to eliminate the Lakers)

He beasted in nearly every game. Magic wasn't the one Sixers were developing a game plan to beat by sending doubles and triples either.

here's highlights of his game 2 performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1kgHXG_Ot8

and highlights of his game 5 performance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMIC4zKK_nE

Those three Lakers-Sixers series are actually all worth a watch. Everybody who hasn't done so yet should head over to YouTube (or download the torrents) and check out the 80, 82, 83 Finals. Great stuff.

[stanlove1111]

Thanks for the information, really makes one put the FMVP in perspective.

I have never seen anyone obsesse with finals fmvp awards when judging players before until I saw this board. Its like this board is infested with that nonsense.I can't think of a dumber argument then fmvp awards when ranking one player against another..If it was my board I would ban anyone who used the argument for a month..When I see this obsession I feel like I am talking to someone with a really low IQ.


Player one..

Dominates the first three rounds of the playoffs and feeds teammate with matchup advantage in finals despite being the best player on the team. Wins title, and is obviously best player on team. Teammate who went off in finals is the fmvp..

Player two..

Is second best player on team for 3 of 4 playoff series. Gets hot in finals because of matchup advantage and because teams star happily backs out of the way and lets him go...he wins fmvp..

In this case the morons on this board would act like player one should be knocked and player two deserves more credit for title..

Like I said low IQ nonsense..It should be banned from this board..

[lakerspng]

Have that series on DVD. Miss the Showtime Lakers...

[The Iron Fist]

Have that series on DVD. Miss the Showtime Lakers...

Where did you buy? I'd like to see it.

[lakerspng]

Where did you buy? I'd like to see it.

Didn't buy it. a friend of mine who's an editor in the sports world gave me a copy of his entire collection. about 30-40 of the best/most significant Lakers games, including whole finals series. Lakers vs Celtics, Lakers vs Sixers, etc.

[fpliii]

I have never seen anyone obsesse with finals fmvp awards when judging players before until I saw this board. Its like this board is infested with that nonsense.I can't think of a dumber argument then fmvp awards when ranking one player against another..If it was my board I would ban anyone who used the argument for a month..When I see this obsession I feel like I am talking to someone with a really low IQ.


Player one..

Dominates the first three rounds of the playoffs and feeds teammate with matchup advantage in finals despite being the best player on the team. Wins title, and is obviously best player on team. Teammate who went off in finals is the fmvp..

Player two..

Is second best player on team for 3 of 4 playoff series. Gets hot in finals because of matchup advantage and because teams star happily backs out of the way and lets him go...he wins fmvp..

In this case the morons on this board would act like player one should be knocked and player two deserves more credit for title..

Like I said low IQ nonsense..It should be banned from this board..

I think there are two separate issues (1980 aside, since it seems to be an anomaly):

1) FMVP is a guy getting hot, outperforming the team's best player up until that point
2) FMVP is awarded to a guy who didn't necessarily have the best series, for whatever other reason (voters can't look past scoring, star bias, etc.)

If it was up to me (which it isn't), there'd be four separate postseason awards: FMVP and ECF/WCF MVP (which is what MLB does), and an overall Playoffs MVP. Four awards seems a bit excessive, though, so maybe not. If I have some free time, I'll have to draft out who my winners would be, should be an interesting exercise.

[KG215]

Kareem for people who don't know had....

33/14/5/6 in game 1
38/14/3/5 in game 2 (made many clutch shots but Bobby Jones ended up hitting game winner)
33/14/3/4 in game 3
40/15/4 in game 5 (heroic fourth quarter on a badly sprained ankle. if he doesn't come up big in that fourth quarter, Sixers lead 3-2 and have 2 games to eliminate the Lakers)

He beasted in nearly every game. Magic wasn't the one Sixers were developing a game plan to beat by sending doubles and triples either.

here's highlights of his game 2 performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1kgHXG_Ot8

and highlights of his game 5 performance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMIC4zKK_nE

I think game 5 was also the game Magic had something like 10 turnovers. I think he had a triple-double, too, but if I remember right he had a lot of turnovers and it wasn't his best game. Kareem dropped 26 in the first half, hurt his ankle in the 3rd quarter, and came out and scored 14 in the 4th to get the win the hurt ankle.

LeBron gets a thread for "being the best ever when he plays at that level" thread after scoring 16 in the 3rd quarter. Kareem dropped 14 in the 4th quarter of a Finals game on a bad ankle, and carried his team to a win.

[K Xerxes]

I think game 5 was also the game Magic had something like 10 turnovers. I think he had a triple-double, too, but if I remember right he had a lot of turnovers and it wasn't his best game. Kareem dropped 26 in the first half, hurt his ankle in the 3rd quarter, and came out and scored 14 in the 4th to get the win the hurt ankle.

LeBron gets a thread for "being the best ever when he plays at that level" thread after scoring 16 in the 3rd quarter. Kareem dropped 14 in the 4th quarter of a Finals game on a bad ankle, and carried his team to a win.

Magic had 14 points, 15 rebounds, 10 assists and 10 turnovers on 4/13 shooting in game 5.

Kareem massively outplayed Magic in game 1, 2, 3 and 5. Magic only outplayed Kareem in game 4 (he had 28-9-9 on 10/14 while Kareem had 23-11 on 11/27). However, in that game, Lakers were down 3 and Magic committed a turnover in the final few seconds, and Philly won.

[KG215]

Magic had 14 points, 15 rebounds, 10 assists and 10 turnovers on 4/13 shooting in game 5.

Kareem massively outplayed Magic in game 1, 2, 3 and 5. Magic only outplayed Kareem in game 4 (he had 28-9-9 on 10/14 while Kareem had 23-11 on 11/27). However, in that game, Lakers were down 3 and Magic committed a turnover in the final few seconds, and Philly won.

Yeah, everything I've read about that series (along with the boxscores) made it pretty clear Kareem was better than Magic in the first 5 games. It's a shame the TV network was able to convince voters to change their vote for the sake of the "feel good story" storyline.