The toughest defensive era was 2001-2004

[Showtime80']

You want to know what made defenses look "sooo much better" post early 90's? Four factors: Higher salaries combined with a stricter cap, decrease in overall fundamentals due to growing influence of AAU and players entering the NBA earlier and last but most important, Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls! Scoring basically hovered above 105ppg leaguewide for 30 years until the 90's came along and it WASN'T because of defense!

After Jordan started winning titles and reacting to the booming salaries teams basically tried to emulate the "1 or 2 all stars plus role players" philosophy all over the league. It wasn't economically feasible to have 4 to 5 all-star players like it was in the 80's. Check out some of the rosters of teams that DID NOT win the title in the 80's like the Nuggets, Mavs, Bucks, Cavs, Jazz, Rockets, Sonics etc... They all had at LEAST 3 to 4 players who could drop 20+ a night combined with deep benches!

What team would be harder to stop? A team with one or two scoring options surrounded by roll players like those that became the norm post 1991 or those before that could assemble deep rosters with multiple scoring options? The answer is clear as day!

Look at the rosters of the 80's champions and compare them to those of the 90's specially the repeat Rockets of 94 and 95 which was basically Hakeem Olajuwon surrounded by a bunch of jump shooting role players! The 1986 Rockets with Sampson, Olajuwon, McCray and Lucas would've TROUNCED the 90's version.

He'll the late 80's Pistons who had the greatest and most physical defensive unit of ALL TIME in a league that let them get away with murder with Joe Dumars and Dennis Rodman in their PRIMES! Had a hard time holding teams under 100 points in that time period!

The 1980's was the last period were teams and players were built and developed the right WAY! What has come after is a bunch of rule changes that have altered the sport into a soft video game version that is displayed today!

The 80's were the Golden Age, period!

[GIF REACTION]

That's all well and good but that is 95% your opinion, and about 5% correct.

I already mentioned the offensive strategy impact, BUT it does not measure up to the effect the defense rule changes that took place.

What you just wrote is classic nostalgia, physical equals better, tough grinder mentality.

Here's what REALLY happened that caused major change.

Illegal defense started to get no-called frequently more and more as the 90's progressed. It was both a factor of the MJ/Iverson, AAU cultural impact, AND the illegal defense miscalling. The illegal defense no-calls had the much more superior impact to the so called decline in offenses.

ERGO, DEFENSES GOT BETTER, OFFENSES DIDN'T. When one goes up, the other looks worse.

There are NUMEROUS quotes from articles in the late 90's about teams getting away with playing zones which should be illegal defense according to the rules.

[GIF REACTION]

Offenses if only marginally changed. It was the improvement in defense that mainly caused it to appear as if offenses got worse.

[ClipperRevival]

Offenses if only marginally changed. It was the improvement in defense that mainly caused it to appear as if offenses got worse.

And you don't have actual data to prove that either. All this stuff is pretty subjective. Sure, we can throw some league numbers out there but that alone doesn't prove that one factor was what caused the changes. Did zone impact the game initially? Of course. Anytime a rule that drastic is introduced, it will impact the game. But the league also adjusted. The league always adjusts. Like the soft rules today gives players an incentive to flop. Let the league play more physical and you get less flopping.

This whole topic is pretty subjective. Trying to describe an era with a few sentences doesn't do it justice.

[DonDadda59]

...

Back at it again, Ballin? Thought you learned your lesson last time you went on this pointless crusade.

But if you want some personal tutoring again, just say the word.

[Showtime80']

Teams HAVE always gotten away with playing zone since the early days, he'll the 80's Lakers famous trapping defense was nothing more than a disguised zone trap that wasn't penalized very often.

In the 90's coaches also became more control freaks due to the decline in PG play. Gone were the pass first quarterbacks of the 80's, in came the scoring PG's that have altered offenses negatively since that time. Tempo became stagnant but as Mike Fratello said "It looks better on paper to loose 96-84 instead of 120-100"! You can thank Pat Riley and the 90's Knicks for that mantra as well. Teams in the 80's played more straight up basketball, matching fire with fire sort of speak

Like I was discussing a while back, put the 90's Knicks against ANY of the 80's champions and they still get CREAMED, the difference is only going to come in tempo and the final scoring totals and that has NOTHING to due with defense. Those Knicks WOULD always try to take the air out of the ball because their only two potent offensive weapons were Ewing and frigging John Starks for God's sake! That dynamic didn't fly in the 80's but it worked wonders in the more offensively inept 90's

Basically what the 90's saw were thinner rosters with a lot less offensive firepower, a decrease in overall fundamentals, coaches controlling more of the pace on the floor and just an overall change in player attitudes, the "me" generation was in full bloom!

[DonDadda59]

Teams HAVE always gotten away with playing zone since the early days, he'll the 80's Lakers famous trapping defense was nothing more than a disguised zone trap that wasn't penalized very often.

I've explained this to him on several occasions but the kid just doesn't learn. As stubborn as he is stupid.

[GIF REACTION]

Once again donald you have missed the point.

It was illegal to use a zone before 2001. I've already mentioned that teams got away with it, earlier. Especially in the mid to late 90's, which is the main catalyst for poorer offensive numbers.

It's like how you try and use handchecking as a means to your agenda against modern basketball. People still handcheck all the ****ing time today, but we still acknowledge the impact it has had on perimeter defense on a LEAGUE wide scope.

You're scraping at the bottom of the barrel here donald. You're using unique and separate occasions of illegal defense no-calls, to paint a whole era of play as such. Sorry. But the real world don't work that way sunshine. I've got as many articles supporting my claims as you do. But you know what I have that you don't? Rules. Written in stone, laws of the game.

You're out here trying to build an argument off of one off incidents that might make up 1 or 5 games out of 82 for 30 SEPARATE TEAMS of a grand total of 1200+ GAMES IN A SEASON.

Just stop.

[DonDadda59]

Once again donald you have missed the point.

It was illegal to use a zone before 2001. I've already mentioned that teams got away with it, earlier. Especially in the mid to late 90's, which is the main catalyst for poorer offensive numbers.

It's like how you try and use handchecking as a means to your agenda against modern basketball. People still handcheck all the ****ing time today, but we still acknowledge the impact it has had on perimeter defense on a LEAGUE wide scope.

You're scraping at the bottom of the barrel here donald. You're using unique and separate occasions of illegal defense no-calls, to paint a whole era of play as such. Sorry. But the real world don't work that way sunshine. I've got as many articles supporting my claims as you do. But you know what I have that you don't? Rules. Written in stone, laws of the game.

You're out here trying to build an argument off of one off incidents that might make up 1 or 5 games out of 82 for 30 SEPARATE TEAMS of a grand total of 1200+ GAMES IN A SEASON.

Just stop.

Since the rule changes back in '01 teams play 'zone' less than 3% of total possessions. League-wide scoring rose every year since then. League-wide eFG% is at its highest level ever while APG is down from the mid 90s (similar pace).

What tangible proof do you have to back up anything you say?

All the beautiful people here will be waiting for you to wow us with your thorough research. Don't let us down.

[GIF REACTION]

Since the rule changes back in '01 teams play 'zone' less than 3% of total possessions. League-wide scoring rose every year since then. League-wide eFG% is at its highest level ever while APG is down from the mid 90s (similar pace).

What tangible proof do you have to back up anything you say?

All the beautiful people here will be waiting for you to wow us with your thorough research. Don't let us down.

And I knew you were going to reference zone statistics. We are back where we've always been. How do you measure a zone? You know as well as I do when I say zone I mean any form of defense, whatever it may be, that would be considered otherwise illegal, under the old Illegal Defense guidelines. This goes for sagging off, covering the lane, help defense, shading the lane, zone sandwiching, etc. Don't try and play dumb and act like when we say zone we mean 2-3 and 3-2 or 1-3-1 and that's it. I'm seeing the bias and holes in your agenda clearly.

And those offensive rise in numbers need to be taken into context.

[DonDadda59]

And I knew you were going to reference zone statistics. We are back where we've always been. How do you measure a zone? You know as well as I do when I say zone I mean any form of defense, whatever it may be, that would be considered otherwise illegal, under the old Illegal Defense guidelines. [COLOR="Red"]This goes for sagging off, covering the lane, help defense, shading the lane, zone sandwiching[/COLOR], etc. Don't try and play dumb and act like when we say zone we mean 2-3 and 3-2 or 1-3-1 and that's it. I'm seeing the bias and holes in your agenda clearly.

Zone sandwich

All of those tactics were used prior to the rule changes, without the handicap of having to clear out the paint every 2.9 seconds or not being able to physically impede a defender.

A zone is a specific thing, not some bullshit made up by clueless internet nerds with names like 'zone sandwich'. I wonder is Coach K's playbook contains any zone sandwich packages.

And those offensive rise in numbers need to be taken into context.

Go ahead and fill us in on the specifics of this context.

Can't wait.

[GIF REACTION]

Zone sandwich

All of those tactics were used prior to the rule changes, without the handicap of having to clear out the paint every 2.9 seconds or not being able to physically impede a defender.

A zone is a specific thing, not some bullshit made up by clueless internet nerds with names like 'zone sandwich'. I wonder is Coach K's playbook contains any zone sandwich packages.



Go ahead and fill us in on the specifics of this context.

Can't wait.

You do realize that the 3 in the key rule was part of the illegal defense rules? It has always been there.

Do you realize the topic of this thread? A period of time in which handchecking was still the same as it was from the 80's and the 90's, when they first brought in handchecking laws in 1980? Why are you even mentioning this?

Would you want me to call it "Acts of illegal defense"? Zone is an easier terminology that can be stretched out to mean a number of things.

[GIF REACTION]

Removal of Illegal defense has had a huge impact of the NBA, whether you like it or not.

[Showtime80']

The 80's teams and players would've LOVED playing under the post 2001 rules specially with NO DOMINANT centers patrolling the paint and having wide open lanes to work with! The 86 Celtics would be blowing teams out by 20 in every game by mid third quarter in today's pathetic East!

You have to remember virtually ALL of the players from that era played at least 2 years of NCAA basketball under a HARD TRUE ZONE, no shot clock, no 3 point line, clogged lanes with no spacing in a time were college basketball was STACKED!!! And guess what? They all excelled!!!

Today's NBA rules are an artificial way to hide the long list of modern deficiencies the modern players have, ALL ATHLETICISM with low IQ and fundamentals. The NBA was FORCED to change the rules because of the modern player decrease in basic skill set compared to those of the past!

[GIF REACTION]

Oh my god shut the **** up with your nostalgia