Convince me that Tim Duncan isn't a top 3 player all-time

[ShawkFactory]

In an all-time draft, would he be even a top-10 pick?





.

Why not? You'd get an MVP-level, and best in the league player at his peak combined with probably 20 total years of defensive anchoring and intangibles. I'd draft him over Shaq.

[houston]

top5 for sure

[ILLsmak]

he's #4 behind jordan, russell and KAJ

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I def think Duncan is climbing, but I can't put him over Bird and Shaq, either. Magic and Wilt are there, too. The only person you can really argue him over that I listed is Shaq. Duncan is solid, but I don't see him as top 5.

The reason I pick Shaq is because I think Shaq was better, period. Shaq could have done anything Duncan did with any Duncan team.

Duncan is over Kobe, he's over Hakeem now for sure, over Bron now (maybe always.)

But over the 'six' and Shaq? I dunno. I can't do it.

Much respect, tho.

-Smak

[rmt]

There's almost no argument to keep him out of the top 5 at this point. I've said before that I have no problem with someone arguing for him at #3 over guys like Russell and Wilt. Both of them had significant weaknesses in their resume where Duncan's is complete.

If he wins another ring as a 1A/1B/1C player, I can see him beginning to have real arguments above Jordan and Kareem. Jordan had 5 losing seasons, Duncan had never had below 60% wins. Jordan's first few playoff runs were jokes (getting swept twice in the first round and beat easily by a Terry Cummings-led Milwaukee?) Kareem played with two top-15 players (Magic and Oscar), Duncan never played with a top-15 player.

I'm a huge Duncan fan, but there is no way he has any argument above Kareem and especially Jordan if he wins another ring. If he were to three peat and win FMVP both times, then there's a case vs KAJ (6 rings vs 7 rings, 6 MVPs/2FMVPs vs 2MVPs/5FMVPs) but still not vs Jordan.

[IllegalD]

Tim DunCAN'T is not a Top 3 Player All-Time because Jordan, Kareem, and Kobe.

[Warners0]

Michael Jordan - obvious reasons

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Duncan already has more playoff minutes than Kareem so even if he does get 6 rings, Kareem did it faster. Duncan's peak never approached Kareem's.

Random 3rd player better than Duncan

Duncan is an elite player with a lot of accomplishments, but his peak is nowhere near players like Shaq, Kareem, Wilt. No way he's a top 3.

You know why Kareem did it faster. Because he cried his way out of Milwaukee to play in L.A.

Duncan's run is more impressive because he did it with one team. The team that drafted him and they have been contenders pretty much every year he has played on that team regardless of supporting cast.

I agree with the OP.

In fact I would take it further. There is no player in the history of basketball I would rather build around than Duncan and I'm a bulls fan.

He has proven you can put pretty much any supporting cast around him and he will take you to a 50 win season minimum every year and no other player in the league can say that.

[Warners0]

David Robinson played the center position during first 2 titles, and the reality is that Tim Duncan played the majority of his career at PF, although his natural position is center.

Tim Duncan is not ahead of guys like Kareem, MJ, Magic, even Shaq ... so it is safe to say that he doesn't belong to TOP 3.

David Robinson barely played during the 03 season. What a joke. David Robinson was a bench player during the 03 season. Down the stretch Malik Rose was getting minutes over him. Give me a break.

[Warners0]

There's almost no argument to keep him out of the top 5 at this point. I've said before that I have no problem with someone arguing for him at #3 over guys like Russell and Wilt. Both of them had significant weaknesses in their resume where Duncan's is complete.

If he wins another ring as a 1A/1B/1C player, I can see him beginning to have real arguments above Jordan and Kareem. Jordan had 5 losing seasons, Duncan had never had below 60% wins. Jordan's first few playoff runs were jokes (getting swept twice in the first round and beat easily by a Terry Cummings-led Milwaukee?) Kareem played with two top-15 players (Magic and Oscar), Duncan never played with a top-15 player.

Dude Duncan is better than Jordan right now. Like you said he did more with less than anyone. People keep bringing up David Robinson but he was only a factor in that 99 championship. And he was nowhere as good as people think he was. When people think of David Robinson they think of pre knee surgery David Robinson. But he wasn't that guy once Duncan got on the team. He had one really amazing year after his surgery and then there was a sharp decline in his production. Which people don't seem to get.

David Robinson never achieved all nba status in any of Duncan championship runs. He was never playing at that level.

While Jordan played with Pippen his entire championship run one of the best small forward of all time in his prime. Plus Rodman the greatest rebounder ever.

[fourkicks44]

Dude Duncan is better than Jordan right now. Like you said he did more with less than anyone. People keep bringing up David Robinson but he was only a factor in that 99 championship. And he was nowhere as good as people think he was. When people think of David Robinson they think of pre knee surgery David Robinson. But he wasn't that guy once Duncan got on the team. He had one really amazing year after his surgery and then there was a sharp decline in his production. Which people don't seem to get.

David Robinson never achieved all nba status in any of Duncan championship runs. He was never playing at that level.

While Jordan played with Pippen his entire championship run one of the best small forward of all time in his prime. Plus Rodman the greatest rebounder ever.

Spoken like:

a) Some one that doesn't know shit.

b) someone that is trying to trying to troll but can't, making himself look like a jack ass.

Either way you fail.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Tim DunCAN'T is not a Top 3 Player All-Time because Jordan, Kareem, and Kobe.

Thanks for letting us know that you have no idea what you're talking about. **** outta this thread please.

Duncan might have a case to bump Russell from my top-3 if he can win another ring.

[Nastradamus]

He might well be. GOAT defensive player at the least.

[navy]

He might well be. GOAT defensive player at the least.

0 defensive player of the years.

[Nowitness]

0 defensive player of the years.

Voted on by who?

Kobe has 9 defensive first teams, defensive awards are corrupt.

[Cold soul]

Duncan top 6-10 player of all-time he's in Shaq, Kobe range as all-time greats go another ring he surpasses both and becomes best player post MJ. His longevity is unmatched sustained greatness winning 50 or games year in and out over span of a decade is flat out crazy. It be sad day when he decides to retire, he might be most underrated not talked about all-time great the NBA has seen.

[ninephive]

Someone said Jordan started winning only after getting a GOAT coach. The point is that once he had the GOAT coach, he bagged 6 championships in 6 (full) seasons - 100% conversion rate. Besides never lost a series while having HCA. He made it count when he had a good team and coach.

Duncan had a GOAT-level coach since day 1 and is 5/16. And individually Jordan 's level was much higher in the championship seasons.

Another way of looking at it: Replace Grant with Duncan and Jordan with a Grant-level SG on those Bulls teams; I can't imagine them winning 6 ships.

If you replace Manu Ginobili with Jordan and Duncan with a Ginobili-level PF on the Spurs, I can see them winning more than 5 in the last 13 seasons.

Jordan got beat by Detroit in 1990 with Phil and by Orlando in 1995 with Phil. He didn't have 100% conversion rate even if you for some reason throw out the 1995 season (which he had 17 RS games just to prepare for the postseason...I don't see this as an excuse, especially when Orlando went and got embarrassingly swept by the Rockets...it's not like he even lost to a great team).

I'm not arguing that Jordan didn't have success when he had all those pieces in place. That's the strength of Jordan's resume. The weakness is that we know for a fact that he couldn't win without those pieces (we saw it happen before his championships and after them)...and not only not win championships, but not even be a competitive team. We've never seen that with Duncan, but then we'll never know because Duncan's always had a great coach and outside of 2001-2003 always had a really good supporting cast.

So for Duncan having a losing season or not making the playoffs is purely hypothetical. It's not with Jordan...he actually led really bad teams.