Lebron vs. Magic

[Iceman#44]

you increase magic's average and i increase lebron's. I have never made a thread or comment about lebron could score "this much" if he tried, neither should you.
facts are there for you to use. Stop using ifs and buts because those favor lebron too. What if he didn't get drafted by cavs and got drafted by a classy organization like lakers who could hire pat riley? May be he would be a better player but you don't see me making those statements so just use the actual stats instead of using ifs and buts.

Well then

First of all, i say that Magic could have been easily a 22-25 ppg scorer for his career. FYI, Johnson actually scored 23.9 ppg in 1986-87 season, 22.5 ppg in 1988-89 and 22.3 in 1989-90.
So, as you can see, Magic was 3 times during his 12 years career into the 22-25 ppg range.
And that's always during Kareem last years, when Magic was ASKED to play a bigger role on offense (more points).

You say that LBJ could have been a 32 ppg scorer for his career, and thats stupid. He NEVER scored 32.0 in a single season in 11 years, his best was 31.0 in Cleveland and he reached the 30.0 plateau just 2 times. We are talking about facts here.

Also. Like someone before me has said, when asked Magic always showed that he could have scored much more.
During the 1986-1987 season for example, Jabbar missed 3 consecutive games in December.
On December 20, 1986 @Dallas, Magic scored 34 points with 7 boards and 15 assist.
December 21, 1986 @ Houston, Magic scored 38 with 8 boards and 16 ast.
December 23, 1986 @ Sacramento, Magic scored 46 with 10 boards and 9 ast (OT game).

You do the math.

MAGIC STATS during 3 consecutive games without Jabbar:
39.3 ppg, 8.3 reb, 13.3 ast

[wakencdukest]

They average the same amount of rebounds for their careers, but adjusting for pace, it's safe to say Lebron is a little better.

Lebrons past two seasons are better from the field than any of Magics seasons, despite shooting way more threes. Lebron shoots 2's better and 3's better.

You are right about the assists and ft%. Although, I gave Magic credit for being the better passer.

I'll give him steals too. Although pace and handchecking help his cause tremendously.

Ok, I'm not a stats nerd but I feel the need to use them when you are not being objective. You are obviously biased and never saw magic play. LeBrons two best years he shot .565 and .567. Magics two best years he shot .565 and .561. LeBrons got a long way to go until he catches up to Magics shooting percentage. You can't just pick and choose what you want to put into your argument.

[The Macho Man]

dribble dribble drive and kick doesn't make you on the same level of passing as bird it just gets you a lot of assists

[DMAVS41]

It's close...and in some ways the comparison is unfair because Lebron would thrive playing on loaded teams like Magic had that were a good fit in the sense that everyone could play a proper role....while, if we are really fair, Wade has been and never was a good fit next to Lebron on offense...it's been the defense that made it work, but obviously that fell off dramatically the last 2 years

Having said that though...lets be real for a minute. Magic is getting a bit under-rated here. He was the best game manager I've ever seen. He controlled games from the jump. He got the most out of his teammates and was a truly legendary leader/teammate.

He made 9 finals and won 5 rings.

He had a 12 year career (not counting 96) in which he averaged 20/7/13 60% TS in the playoffs and has the highest offensive rating in NBA playoff history at 122.

I currently have Magic 4th and Lebron 10th. Lebron will no doubt move way up over the next 8 years assuming no drastic injuries or declines....and ultimately it will be really close.

For now though...I think Magic has earned that top 5 spot...while I don't think Lebron has.

It's hard to explain to people that didn't see Magic play, but let me put it this way.

If someone asked me if I wanted rookie Magic or 4th year Lebron (2007 Lebron)...I take rookie Magic and it's not close. So lets not ignore stuff like that. Magic came in and was better from the jump than Lebron was honestly through his first 4 or 5 years....

[dc_chilling]

Ok, I'm not a stats nerd but I feel the need to use them when you are not being objective. You are obviously biased and never saw magic play. LeBrons two best years he shot .565 and .567. Magics two best years he shot .565 and .561. LeBrons got a long way to go until he catches up to Magics shooting percentage. You can't just pick and choose what you want to put into your argument.

Dude, go back and watch Magic play. That nostalgia bs doesn't work.

You can watch full Magic games on Youtube.

You can remember back to the good ole' days if you want. I'm telling you what I just rewatched last night.

You can say Lebron has a long way to go before he catches Magics shooting percentages if you want, but you can't argue with the fact that Lebron shot better from the field last season than Magic ever has. Add in the fact that Magic took almost no threes in his .565 season, and there isn't really an argument. If Lebron took as few threes as Magic he would have shot 62% last season from the field.

[DMAVS41]

Dude, go back and watch Magic play. That nostalgia bs doesn't work.

You can watch full Magic games on Youtube.

You can remember back to the good ole' days if you want. I'm telling you what I just rewatched last night.

You can say Lebron has a long way to go before he catches Magics shooting percentages if you want, but you can't argue with the fact that Lebron shot better from the field last season than Magic ever has. Add in the fact that Magic took almost no threes in his .565 season, and there isn't really an argument. If Lebron took as few threes as Magic he would have shot 62% last season from the field.

So what?

Magic's overall efficiency is actually slightly better than Lebron's in the regular season and playoffs.

Lebron has also played like 3 to 4 minutes per game more than Magic did in both the regular season and playoffs.

[Rose'sACL]

Well then

First of all, i say that Magic could have been easily a 22-25 ppg scorer for his career. FYI, Johnson actually scored 23.9 ppg in 1986-87 season, 22.5 ppg in 1988-89 and 22.3 in 1989-90.
So, as you can see, Magic was 3 times during his 12 years career into the 22-25 ppg range.
And that's always during Kareem last years, when Magic was ASKED to play a bigger role on offense (more points).

You say that LBJ could have been a 32 ppg scorer for his career, and thats stupid. He NEVER scored 32.0 in a single season in 11 years, his best was 31.0 in Cleveland and he reached the 30.0 plateau just 2 times. We are talking about facts here.

Also. Like someone before me has said, when asked Magic always showed that he could have scored much more.
During the 1986-1987 season for example, Jabbar missed 3 consecutive games in December.
On December 20, 1986 @Dallas, Magic scored 34 points with 7 boards and 15 assist.
December 21, 1986 @ Houston, Magic scored 38 with 8 boards and 16 ast.
December 23, 1986 @ Sacramento, Magic scored 46 with 10 boards and 9 ast (OT game).

You do the math.

MAGIC STATS during 3 consecutive games without Jabbar:
39.3 ppg, 8.3 reb, 13.3 ast

lebron averaged 38-8-8 in 6 games in playoffs. that doesn't mean much. You don't get sarcasm.
Magic's best season(86-87): 23.9PPG on 60.2TS%(to include 3 point shooting) , 12.2 APG, 6.3 RPG
Lebron's best year(2009-10): 29.7PPG on 60.4TS%, 8.6 APG, 7.3RPG
Should i make posts saying that lebron should be a 30PPG scorer but he doesn't try for some reason that only the poster iceman#44 knows about.
Lebron has had stats drop after joining heat but he still scores over 27 a game.
These are all stats with no regard for pace on which lakers played at in an already fast paced league compared to post 90s league.

[Rose'sACL]

So what?

Magic's overall efficiency is actually slightly better than Lebron's in the regular season and playoffs.

Lebron has also played like 3 to 4 minutes per game more than Magic did in both the regular season and playoffs.

the point he is trying to make is that lebron will probably end up with better TS% than magic by the time he retires while averaging 6-7.5PPG better by the time he retires while also playing for a longer time which should count as a positive for him.
Magic is slightly ahead in TS% right now. Give the trend, no one would bet against lebron having better TS% by end of his career.

[plowking]

How the hell would you know this? Did you make a time machine? Magic was a tough matchup for anyone that ever guarded him. There is a myth floating around that somehow Pippen shut him down in the 1991 finals. He put up 18/8/12 in that series. If that is him being "shut down", imagine what he would have done without being "shut down".

Empty stats. His team lost. Shut down.


That's how it works right? Any time you lose, empty stats.

[DMAVS41]

the point he is trying to make is that lebron will probably end up with better TS% than magic by the time he retires while averaging 6-7.5PPG better by the time he retires while also playing for a longer time which should count as a positive for him.
Magic is slightly ahead in TS% right now. Give the trend, no one would bet against lebron having better TS% by end of his career.

And when that happens...great.

Lebron is a better scorer than Magic. Is anyone really debating that?

[dc_chilling]

So what?

Magic's overall efficiency is actually slightly better than Lebron's in the regular season and playoffs.

Using what metric?

Magic highest PER ever was 27. Lebron has had 8 seasons above 27 PER.

Lebron's TS%, EFG%, and FG% are higher over the last couple years than anything Magic has done.

Magics highest winshares is 16.5. Lebron has topped that 3 times, including a crazy 20.3 WS in 2009.

I don't see an argument for how any version of Magic is more efficent than this version of Lebron.

[DMAVS41]

Using what metric?

Magic highest PER ever was 27. Lebron has had 8 seasons above 27 PER.

Lebron's TS%, EFG%, and FG% are higher over the last couple years than anything Magic has done.

Magics highest winshares is 16.5. Lebron has topped that 3 times, including a crazy 20.3 WS in 2009.

I don't see an argument for how any version of Magic is more efficent than this version of Lebron.

I was solely talking about TS%...overall efficiency.

[dc_chilling]

I was solely talking about TS%...overall efficiency.

Lol. There are plenty of stats to measure efficency.

Either way, as I said, Magic never had a more efficent season than either of the last two season Lebron just had using your metric.

Let me ask you something.

What does Magic do better than Lebron besides passing?

[DMAVS41]

Lol. There are plenty of stats to measure efficency.

Either way, as I said, Magic never had a more efficent season than either of the last two season Lebron just had using your metric.

Let me ask you something.

What does Magic do better than Lebron besides passing?

He manages the game better and gets more out of his teammates. And those things really matter. If you looked at a player like Hakeem vs Magic...you could make a lot of these same arguments, but guess what...Magic was a better player than Hakeem.

Again...rookie Magic was a better player than 4th year Lebron...perhaps 5th year lebron as well. I can't ignore that.

When people talk about scoring efficiency...it's usually about TS%...fyi.

[Iceman#44]

lebron averaged 38-8-8 in 6 games in playoffs. that doesn't mean much. You don't get sarcasm.
Magic's best season(86-87): 23.9PPG on 60.2TS%(to include 3 point shooting) , 12.2 APG, 6.3 RPG
Lebron's best year(2009-10): 29.7PPG on 60.4TS%, 8.6 APG, 7.3RPG
Should i make posts saying that lebron should be a 30PPG scorer but he doesn't try for some reason that only the poster iceman#44 knows about.
Lebron has had stats drop after joining heat but he still scores over 27 a game.
These are all stats with no regard for pace on which lakers played at in an already fast paced league compared to post 90s league.

Bro, im just trying to show you that Magic showed during his career that he could carry the offense with 25-30 ppg if his team need his points.
When Jabbar was injured/old, etc
But, you know,he was a PLAYMAKER. One of those player who can dominate a game WITHOUT Scoring/Shooting at all.