The latest BS for why Curry's offense > Jordan's: he spaces the floor

[3ball]

Currys superior efficiency and assists to turnover ratio blows Jordan away.

Assist-to-turnover ratio:

[COLOR="DarkRed"]JORDAN 1991[/COLOR]: 2.2
[COLOR="Navy"]CURRY[COLOR="White"]N[/COLOR] 2016[/COLOR]: 2.0

As you can see, Jordan had better assist-to-turnover ratio in 1991.

For their careers, Jordan and Curry's assist-to-turnover ratio is nearly identical, but Jordan averaged 30.1 ppg (very heavy load) to Curry's 22.4 (light load).

Also, Jordan was involved in more possessions (usage), while achieving higher points-per-possession efficiency (ortg).. So he was involved in more possessions, at higher per-possession efficiency - he simply DID MORE.

Curry averaged over 300 ppg for the year whilst have an efg of 63 percent! Jordans best is 55 percent.

The shooting efficiency you brag about affects points-per-SHOT, which isn't as important as points-per-POSSESSION (ortg).

Jordan's lower turnovers allowed him to generate more points-per-possession for his team than Curry, while also carrying a larger load on both sides of the ball.

Curry is certainly the better offensive player for their respective peak years.

Jordan's 1991 regular season was better and his playoffs was on another level:

Per 100 Possessions

[COLOR="DarkRed"]JORDAN 1991 RS: 42.7 pts.. 8.1 reb..[COLOR="White"]4[/COLOR] 7.5 ast.. 3.3 tov.. 3.7 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 60.4 ts.. 125 ORtg.. 31.6 PER.. 0.321 WS/48[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Navy"]CURRY [COLOR="White"]4[/COLOR] 2016 RS: 42.5 pts.. 7.7 reb..[COLOR="White"]4[/COLOR] 9.4 ast.. 4.7 tov.. 3.0 stl.. 0.3 blk.. 66.9 ts.. 125 ORtg.. 31.5 PER.. 0.318 WS/48[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]JORDAN 1991 PO: 41.8 pts.. 8.5 reb.. 11.2 ast.. 3.4 tov.. 3.2 stl.. 1.8 blk.. 60.0 ts.. 127 ORtg.. 32.0 PER.. 0.333 WS/48[/COLOR]

Jordan had higher Player Efficiency Rating and points-per-possession (ORtg), even though Curry's efficiency was boosted by carrying a smaller load on both sides of the ball: he doesn't play defense and accounts for a smaller proportion of his team's points + assists.

Curry is certainly the better offensive player for their respective peak years.

Jordan simply DID MORE - he was involved in MORE POSSESSIONS for his team (usage), while producing more points-PER-possession (ORtg):

1991 vs. 2016:

[COLOR="DarkRed"]JORDAN REG SEASON[/COLOR]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 32.9% usage.. 125 ORtg
[COLOR="Navy"]CURRY[COLOR="White"]4[/COLOR] REG SEASON[/COLOR]:[COLOR="White"]4[/COLOR] 32.6% usage.. 125 ORtg

Career

[COLOR="DarkRed"]JORDAN REG SEASON[/COLOR]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 33.3% Usage.. 118 ORtg
[COLOR="Navy"]CURRY[COLOR="White"]4[/COLOR] REG SEASON[/COLOR]:[COLOR="White"]4[/COLOR] 26.9% Usage.. 117 ORtg

[COLOR="DarkRed"]JORDAN PLAYOFF[/COLOR]S:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 35.6% Usage.. 118 ORtg
[COLOR="Navy"]CURRY[COLOR="White"]4[/COLOR] PLAYOFFS[/COLOR]:[COLOR="White"]4[/COLOR] 28.2% Usage.. 115 ORtg

Jordan did more the 50% of the time he was on offense, and was the best defender ever at his position the other 50% on defense.
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[PejaTheSerbSnip]

Otoh, Jordan had [COLOR="DarkRed"]130[/COLOR] games of 40+ points and 1 or zero turnovers thru 7 seasons (1993).

Bullshit. He had 44 such games in his entire career and 22 in his first 7 seasons.

Currys OBPM this year was 12.4...higher than the next best in basketball history by over 2.5. He also shattered the net points record (which is a way of aggregating true shooting% and tying it into usage) by a lot, with +601 net points, 100 points higher than MJs or LeBrons best seasons (mind you this only takes into account scoring, but there you go).

And no, for what it's worth, Jordan did not space the floor better than Curry lol. Nobody in the history of the NBA has. It's why, even without Curry and Thompson, the Warriors are close to 38%+ despite their best and most frequent 3pt shooters besides the two being Green, Iguodala and Barnes, none of whom are natural shooters. It's why Curry was one of the league leaders in both assists and hockey assists, because their shot allocation is ridiculously efficient when he's on the floor and getting doubled, and why his team is the best offensive juggernaut in NBA history when he's on the floor and merely 'good' when he's off it.

Bonus: here is the Warriors record the past few years with and without Curry:

12-13: 45-33 with, 2-2 without
13-14: 50-28 with, 1-3 without
14-15: 67-13, 0-2
15-16: 72-8, 2-2

234-82, 4-9


Not wholly relevant to the thread but I thought I'd include that for the fucbois that doubt Currys impact. Anyways, cut the bullshit. Jordan was and almost certainly always will be better than Curry, and I'd still take his peak over Stephs, but not on the offensive side of the ball. Currys best offensive season is demonstrably superior. And all your ****ing lies and spam won't change that.

[hold this L]

Bullshit. He had 44 such games in his entire career and 22 in his first 7 seasons.

Currys OBPM this year was 12.4...higher than the next best in basketball history by over 2.5. He also shattered the net points record (which is a way of aggregating true shooting% and tying it into usage) by a lot, with +601 net points, 100 points higher than MJs or LeBrons best seasons (mind you this only takes into account scoring, but there you go).

And no, for what it's worth, Jordan did not space the floor better than Curry lol. Nobody in the history of the NBA has. It's why, even without Curry and Thompson, the Warriors are close to 38%+ despite their best and most frequent 3pt shooters besides the two being Green, Iguodala and Barnes, none of whom are natural shooters. It's why Curry was one of the league leaders in both assists and hockey assists, because their shot allocation is ridiculously efficient when he's on the floor and getting doubled, and why his team is the best offensive juggernaut in NBA history when he's on the floor and merely 'good' when he's off it.

Bonus: here is the Warriors record the past few years with and without Curry:

12-13: 45-33 with, 2-2 without
13-14: 50-28 with, 1-3 without
14-15: 67-13, 0-2
15-16: 72-8, 2-2

234-82, 4-9


Not wholly relevant to the thread but I thought I'd include that for the fucbois that doubt Currys impact. Anyways, cut the bullshit. Jordan was and almost certainly always will be better than Curry, and I'd still take his peak over Stephs, but not on the offensive side of the ball. Currys best offensive season is demonstrably superior. And all your ****ing lies and spam won't change that.

You realize he admitted he hasn't watched basketball for 5 years right? I don't know why you're arguing with 2ball, it's just a waste of time.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

You realize he admitted he hasn't watched basketball for 5 years right? I don't know why you're arguing with 2ball, it's just a waste of time.

Own personal amusement more than anything

[jstern]

Curry averaged over 300 ppg for the year whilst have an efg of 63 percent! Jordans best is 55 percent. Currys superior efficiency and assists to turnover ratio, whilst getting more assists just blows Jordan away.

Curry is certainly the better offensive player for their respective peak years.

The question is, would that have been the case if Curry played under the conditions Jordan did?

[tpols]

lol .. jordan sucks defense towards the paint, curry sucks them all out.

that's the difference.

[3ball]

Jordan had 44 games with 1 or zero turnovers in his entire career and 22 in his first 7 seasons.

Your counted wrong - Jordan had [COLOR="DarkRed"]THIRTY[/COLOR] games of 40 points and 1 or zero turnovers thru 7 seasons.

Whereas Curry only has [COLOR="Navy"]ONE[/COLOR] game of 40 points and 1 or zero turnovers thru 7 seasons.. He needs at least 2 turnovers to get 40 points

New fans and pundits of the game brag about Curry's points-per-shot, but points-per-possession is more important and Jordan's lower turnovers allowed him to generate more points-per-possession for his team than Curry (while also carrying a larger load on both sides of the ball)..

Currys OBPM this year was 12.4

Who cares - that's a boxscore stat, just like win shares.

Jordan had higher win shares and offensive win shares.

That means Jordan contributed more to his team's wins than Curry did, and his offense contributed more to his team's wins than Curry's offense.

Jordan also had higher Player Efficiency Rating... Anyone can play the stat game - more of them favor Jordan than Curry.

He also shattered the net points record (which is a way of aggregating [COLOR="Red"]true shooting%[/COLOR] and tying it into usage) by a lot, with +601 net points, 100 points higher than MJs or LeBrons best seasons (mind you this only takes into account scoring, but there you go).

True shooting affects points-per-SHOT, but points-per-POSSESSION (ortg) is more important and Jordan's lower turnovers allowed him to generate more points-per-possession for his team than Curry (while also carrying a larger load on both sides of the ball)..

And no, Jordan did not space the floor better than Curry

It's dumb to think that a SINGLE DEFENDER hugging Curry on the perimeter (which Jordan's defender did as well), is more effective at getting good shots for teammates than Jordan's rim attack shifting the ENTIRE DEFENSE on a perpetual basis and drawing double-teams.

Intuitively, one good shooter can't space the floor much - if they could, then the 1980's Celtics or 90's Pacers would've had great spacing, because of Bird and Miller.. Instead, it's the 5 Warrior players spreading the floor and shooting 3-pointers TOGETHER that provides goat spacing.

Accordingly, teams obtain spacing by either having a TEAM of shooters to collectively create spacing ([COLOR="Navy"]Warriors[/COLOR]), or a dominant rim-attacker that can shift an entire defense, including forcing double-teams ([COLOR="DarkRed"]Jordan[/COLOR]).

even without Curry and Thompson, the Warriors are close to 38%+ despite their best and most frequent 3pt shooters besides the two being Green, Iguodala and Barnes, [COLOR="Red"]none of whom are natural shooters[/COLOR].

All of Curry's teammates had equal or better 3-point shooting seasons on other teams: Iggy's best 3-point seasons were in Philly, Barbosa's best were in Phoenix, Ian Clark shot the exact same in Utah, Brandon Rush's best were in Indiana.

Of course, Draymond and Harrison Barnes have played with Curry their entire careers, so we don't have stats of them playing without Curry.

That's everyone - so the notion that Curry's presence improves his teammates 3-point shooting is false.

It's dumb to think that a SINGLE DEFENDER hugging Curry on the perimeter (which Jordan's defender did as well), is more effective at getting good shots for teammates than Jordan's threat of rim attack shifting the ENTIRE DEFENSE on a perpetual basis and drawing double-teams.



CONTINUED................

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[3ball]

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CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST.............

that's why his team is the [COLOR="Red"]best offensive juggernaut in NBA history[/COLOR] when he's on the floor and merely 'good' when he's off it.

The 1996 Bulls had higher ORtg and SRS than the 2016 Warriors.

Also, ALL teams suffer when their star player leaves the floor - this doesn't happen for Curry more than it does for Jordan or Lebron.

Bonus: here is the Warriors record the past few years with and without Curry:

234-82, 4-9

That's no different than most star players, so it isn't a differentiating factor.. Also, Curry has never led a lottery team to a deep playoff run and 6 games with the champs - but Jordan did.

In 1989, the 47-win Bulls would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8 on 54%.. So heading into the 1990 season without Jordan, they were a LOTTERY team and headed nowhere, instead of ECF veterans and 1 season away from starting a 6-peat dynasty..

That's the GOAT impact on a bad team.. Of course, Jordan had the GOAT impact on decent teams too - his Bulls fell from 3-peat dynasty to 2nd Round without Jordan, and then back to 3-peat dynasty when he returned.

Interestingly, the Bulls' DRtg in 1994 (6th) wasn't any better relative to the league than the first 3-peat (7th, 4th, 7th).. Accordingly, the massive decline from 3-peat dynasty to 2nd Round team was due entirely to the absence of MJ's goat offense, which caused their ORtg to crater from #1 all-time (during the 3-peat) to 14th in the league in 1994.

Steph's offensive peak is better than Jordan's was

We can prove Jordan's offense was better - he simply DID MORE - he was involved in MORE POSSESSIONS for his team (usage), while producing more points-PER-possession (ORtg):


1991 vs. 2016:

[COLOR="DarkRed"]JORDAN REG SEASON[/COLOR]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 32.9% usage.. 125 ORtg
[COLOR="Navy"]CURRY[COLOR="White"]4[/COLOR] REG SEASON[/COLOR]:[COLOR="White"]4[/COLOR] 32.6% usage.. 125 ORtg

Career

[COLOR="DarkRed"]JORDAN REG SEASON[/COLOR]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 33.3% Usage.. 118 ORtg
[COLOR="Navy"]CURRY[COLOR="White"]4[/COLOR] REG SEASON[/COLOR]:[COLOR="White"]4[/COLOR] 26.9% Usage.. 117 ORtg

[COLOR="DarkRed"]JORDAN PLAYOFF[/COLOR]S:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 35.6% Usage.. 118 ORtg
[COLOR="Navy"]CURRY[COLOR="White"]4[/COLOR] PLAYOFFS[/COLOR]:[COLOR="White"]4[/COLOR] 28.2% Usage.. 115 ORtg

Jordan did more the 50% of the time he was on offense, and was the best defender ever at his position the other 50% on defense.

Currys best offensive season is demonstrably superior.

You only method of "demonstrating" is to brag about true shooting, when that only affects points-per-shot.. Points-per POSSESSION is more important, and Jordan's lower turnovers allowed him to provide higher points-per-possession to his team, while carrying a larger load.

To summarize, Jordan's 1991 was better in every single category except true shooting.

And his higher points-per-possession is more important than true shooting because it includes turnovers and measures PER POSSESSION efficiency.. Of course, Jordan had higher PPG, PER, and win shares too, while his lower assists are canceled out by lower turnovers.. Again, the only category Curry has is true shooting (but lower PER POSSESSION efficiency).
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[CuterThanRubio]

The 2016 Wolves would be a playoff contender in 1991.

Curry is dominating in a similar fashion against greater competition.

It's not hard to comprehend.

Well, it is when you are autistic and have never watched a live basketball game.

[3ball]

Curry is dominating in a similar fashion against greater competition.

It's not hard to comprehend.

You realize that Jordan was involved in MORE possessions (usage), at higher points-PER-possession (ortg), right?

So he simply DID MORE - he was involved in more possessions at better per-possession efficiency, on both ends of the floor... But keep ignoring the facts.

You guys brag about true shooting because it's the only category where Curry leads - but true shooting only affects points-per-SHOT and doesn't include turnovers.. Points-per POSSESSION (ortg) is more important, and Jordan's lower turnovers allowed him to provide higher points-per-possession to his team, while carrying a larger load.

And no, Jordan did not space the floor better than Curry

It's dumb to think that a SINGLE DEFENDER hugging Curry on the perimeter (which Jordan's defender did as well), is more effective at getting good shots for teammates than Jordan's rim attack shifting the ENTIRE DEFENSE on a perpetual basis and drawing double-teams.

Intuitively, one good shooter can't space the floor much - if they could, then the 1980's Celtics or 90's Pacers would've had great spacing, because of Bird and Miller.. Instead, it's the 5 Warrior players spreading the floor and shooting 3-pointers TOGETHER that provides goat spacing.

Accordingly, teams obtain spacing by either having a TEAM of shooters to collectively create spacing ([COLOR="Navy"]Warriors[/COLOR]), or a dominant rim-attacker that can shift an entire defense, including forcing double-teams ([COLOR="DarkRed"]Jordan[/COLOR]).
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[Jameerthefear]

Lebron > Curry > Jordan

Next.

[3ball]

The question is, would that have been the case if Curry played under the conditions Jordan did?

Who cares about Curry's superior shooting efficiency - Jordan had superior PER POSSESSION efficiency (ortg), due to lower turnovers.

True shooting affects points-per-SHOT, which isn't as important as points-per-POSSESSION.

Jordan's lower turnovers allowed him to generate more points-per-possession for his team, while also carrying a larger load on both sides of the ball: he accounted for a higher proportion of his team's points and assists, while playing better defense..

[Eye Test]

The beauty about LeBeast is he doesnt need much spacing. He can bulldoze from anywhere on the court with his quick first step + unmatched strengh.

[3ball]

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[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR][COLOR="Navy"]NBA.COM'S STATS ON
"MIDRANGE" EFFICIENCY
[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR](all shots inside 3-pt line but outside paint)[/COLOR]



[COLOR="White"].......................[/COLOR]Midrange Efficiency .


Lebron.. 2008:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 36.4%.. 185/508
Lebron.. 2009:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 36.8%.. 193/525
Lebron.. 2010:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 38.8%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2011:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 44.6%.. 217/487
Lebron.. 2012:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 42.3%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2013:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 43.2%.. 174/403
Lebron.. 2014:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 38.5%.. 126/327
Lebron.. 2015:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 37.0%.. 127/343
Lebron.. 2016:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 37.1%.. 96/259

[COLOR="Red"]M Jordan. 1997:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 48.9%.. 588/1202[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]M Jordan. 1998:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 43.2%.. 476/1101[/COLOR]

Westbrook 2016:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 36.9%.. 164/445
Westbrook 2016:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 42.4%.. 129/304

D Wade.. 2016:[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] 36.4%.. 143/393

Derozan. 2016:[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] 37.5%.. 183/488

Butler. 2016:[COLOR="White"].......[/COLOR] 35.9%.. 113/315



Jordan's 1997 season ranks #1 on this list by a full 5 percentage points, and his volume is 3 times more than anyone else's.. His 1998 ranks 3rd on the list, despite playing through a severe finger injury where he couldn't straighten his finger.

Otoh, Lebron's midrange efficiency is below 40% for 10 of his 13 seasons, while his 3-point percentage is below 35% for 8 of 13 seasons.. The reality is that Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler all have poor 3-point AND midrange efficiency for most of their careers, yet they're still the top wing scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ's athleticism the same way, except he had well-documented goat midrange efficiency, which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and gave him a similarly massive advantage over Lebron, Westbrook and company..
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[CuterThanRubio]

You realize that Jordan was involved in MORE possessions (usage), at higher points-PER-possession (ortg), right?

So he simply DID MORE - he was involved in more possessions at better per-possession efficiency, on both ends of the floor... But keep ignoring the facts.

You guys brag about true shooting because it's the only category where Curry leads - but true shooting only affects points-per-SHOT and doesn't include turnovers.. Points-per POSSESSION (ortg) is more important, and Jordan's lower turnovers allowed him to provide higher points-per-possession to his team, while carrying a larger load.




It's dumb to think that a SINGLE DEFENDER hugging Curry on the perimeter (which Jordan's defender did as well), is more effective at getting good shots for teammates than Jordan's rim attack shifting the ENTIRE DEFENSE on a perpetual basis and drawing double-teams.

Intuitively, one good shooter can't space the floor much - if they could, then the 1980's Celtics or 90's Pacers would've had great spacing, because of Bird and Miller.. Instead, it's the 5 Warrior players spreading the floor and shooting 3-pointers TOGETHER that provides goat spacing.

Accordingly, teams obtain spacing by either having a TEAM of shooters to collectively create spacing ([COLOR="Navy"]Warriors[/COLOR]), or a dominant rim-attacker that can shift an entire defense, including forcing double-teams ([COLOR="DarkRed"]Jordan[/COLOR]).
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Curry demands double teams, it is clear that you DON'T WATCH NBA BASKETBALL.


You are the most persistent troll of all time, I applaud your efforts.