Most Underrated Player of the 90s

[L.Kizzle]

????

MVP voting:

1988 - Stockton 10th - KJ (no pts)
1989 - Stockton 7th - KJ 8th.
1990 - Stockton 9th - KJ (no points)
1991 - Stockton 12th - KJ 7th (only year ahead of Stockton).
1992 - Stockton 12th - KJ 14th
1993 - Stockton 10th - KJ (no pts)
1994 - Stotckton and KJ tied for 11th place.
1995 - Stockton 8th - KJ (no pts).
1996 - Stockton 11th - KJ (no pts)
1997 - Stockton 15th - KJ 17th

KJ highest was 7th place once just like Stockton. And only 2 times in the top 10 while Stockton was top 10 5 times (1988, 89, 90, 93 and 95).

PGs who were All-NBA 1st team over Johnson around this time.

Johnson
Stockton
MARK PRICE
TIM HARDAWAY
Gary Payton
Anfernee Hardaway

[lovethetriangle]

Rony Seikaly!!!

[magnax1]

Didn't you see any of the numerous playoff games KJ took over and dominated, Stockton didn't have the ability to do that, if he did then Utah may have not had as many playoff disappointments because there were times when it was obvious they could've used a 2nd scorer.

Utah had playoff disappointments because Karl Malone was incapable of consistently scoring in the clutch or scoring efficiently in the half court consistently in the playoffs until the late 90s. Stockton generally performed really well in the clutch, though a 20 ppg scorer isn't enough to get you through most playoff in the clutch.
And saying KJ was capable of taking over and dominating is a massive exaggeration. He put up a little better scoring #s while being wildly inconsistent and didn't do anything else better. If you value scoring that much, so be it, but saying he was better just doesn't make much logical sense.
You're comparing a 20-10 3 time all star, to the best passer ever, an all NBA defender who put up 17-14. I never said KJ wasn't a better scorer, but that's the only thing, and not by a huge margin. KJ was a borderline all star most of his career, not a borderline top 5 player like Stockton was in his best years. KJ wasn't even better then Hardaway, who wasn't as good as Stockton in his prime either.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Utah had playoff disappointments because Karl Malone was incapable of consistently scoring in the clutch or scoring efficiently in the half court consistently in the playoffs until the late 90s. Stockton generally performed really well in the clutch, though a 20 ppg scorer isn't enough to get you through most playoff in the clutch.
And saying KJ was capable of taking over and dominating is a massive exaggeration. He put up a little better scoring #s while being wildly inconsistent and didn't do anything else better. If you value scoring that much, so be it, but saying he was better just doesn't make much logical sense.
You're comparing a 20-10 3 time all star, to the best passer ever, an all NBA defender who put up 17-14. I never said KJ wasn't a better scorer, but that's the only thing, and not by a huge margin. KJ was a borderline all star most of his career, not a borderline top 5 player like Stockton was in his best years. KJ wasn't even better then Hardaway, who wasn't as good as Stockton in his prime either.

Stockton is overrated in general, but you take it to a new level. He was NEVER a top 5 player, and it's NOT debatable. Anyone who watches games objectively and has the intelligence/knowledge to analyze the game will know this.

Stockton was a smart player and a very good passer who ran the offense well, but he was in the ideal system for him playing with the ideal teammate for him in Karl Malone. Benefitted as well, but of course, was a much better player than Stockton.

[97 bulls]

Stockton is overrated in general, but you take it to a new level. He was NEVER a top 5 player, and it's NOT debatable. Anyone who watches games objectively and has the intelligence/knowledge to analyze the game will know this.

Stockton was a smart player and a very good passer who ran the offense well, but he was in the ideal system for him playing with the ideal teammate for him in Karl Malone. Benefitted as well, but of course, was a much better player than Stockton.

I agree with the others. You're wayyyyy off base with this one. Stockton was a tough gritty defender, had a wet jumper and was arguably the best pg ever. And I know that when you say stockton didn't take over games, your refering to his scoring. That wasn't his job. And why would you want to take the ball out of malones hand in the clutch (a guy who routinely put up 30 pt games) for your 6'1 pg? If stockton did that or tried to do that sloan woouldve killed him. Look at westbrook and dirant this year. Do you really think it was in the thunders best interest to go away fron durant in favor of westbrook?

[97 bulls]

And dennis rodman is the most underrated player of the 90s.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I agree with the others. You're wayyyyy off base with this one. Stockton was a tough gritty defender, had a wet jumper and was arguably the best pg ever. And I know that when you say stockton didn't take over games, your refering to his scoring. That wasn't his job. And why would you want to take the ball out of malones hand in the clutch (a guy who routinely put up 30 pt games) for your 6'1 pg? If stockton did that or tried to do that sloan woouldve killed him. Look at westbrook and dirant this year. Do you really think it was in the thunders best interest to go away fron durant in favor of westbrook?

No he was not arguably the best point guard ever, I've seen quite a few point guards as good or better, and he has absolutely no case against Magic.

Who said take the ball out of Malone's hands? But you often need more than 1 scorer to be successful, and the Jazz could've used that, Stockton just wasn't capable of taking over a game like that. He could get a solid amount of points in the flow of the offense, but wasn't a dominant player.

[Laimbeer_Rodman]

Cedric Ceballos

No he was not arguably the best point guard ever, I've seen quite a few point guards as good or better, and he has absolutely no case against Magic.

What you have seen is very arguable 'cause you wrote once that you rather pick Nick Anderson over Robert Horry and Denis Scott over Glen Rice

[Suckafree]

No he was not arguably the best point guard ever, I've seen quite a few point guards as good or better, and he has absolutely no case against Magic.

Who said take the ball out of Malone's hands? But you often need more than 1 scorer to be successful, and the Jazz could've used that, Stockton just wasn't capable of taking over a game like that. He could get a solid amount of points in the flow of the offense, but wasn't a dominant player.

C'mon dude. up until now I've thought you were a really good poster. But you're really, really wrong on this one

[Bogus_Sting]

Jayson Williams.

Career ended too early, should have never bought a gun.

[blazerjimmy]

Jeff Hornacek

[NugzHeat3]

Who gives a **** about subjective trash like All-NBA teams or MVP voting that heavily factors in team success and reputation amongst the media? I'm sure Kobe was better than Wade last year.

It's not revisonism when you shared a different opinion than the media back then.

I would take prime KJ over Stockton too, for the record. KJ was a much more dominant scorer and a better man defender. He combined scoring and playmaking to perfection unlike Stockton who I thought often hurt his team by not looking for his shot enough.

However, there's a few drawbacks since KJ was never healthy and he had a rather short prime.

Stockton definitely gets overrated now while Karl Malone gets underrated. People have this image of Karl choking every single time while Stockton was the one making the big plays when in reality, it was the other way round save for a few isolated instances.

Nobody mentions Stockton's shortcomings which there were plenty of.

[sh0wtime]

Mitch Richmond
Glen Rice
Chris Mullin
Mark Price
Drazen Petrovic
Dell Curry
Dale Ellis
Jeff Hornacek
Dan Majerle
Rik Smits
Tim Hardaway

[heyhey]

KJ is like Gilbert Arenas, the man was dominant for a stretch but cut down by injuries

and Stockton is like Nash, consistently great for more years

[FindingTim]

Mookie Blaylock, Terrel Brandon and yes, Scottie Pippen.