LeBron James vs Oscar Robertson All-Time

[Psileas]

I even ranked Allen Iverson over Oscar Robertson. AI led his team in the NBA Finals as the number 1 scoring option of his team.

Then I guess you also rank Willis Reed above Oscar.

[alexandreben]

The pace in the 60's was much higher than 00's, it's true, the pace also has more impact especially to the outside shooters than centers, also true.. one thing need to consider, the rules e.g. Hand-Checking, the defense quality in 00's is much weaker than Oscar's era.

LeBron will surpass Oscar in the very next few years without any doubt, but to me, they all lack of something, just like Jerry West said, the "killer instinct", the eye of the tiger.

For those who keep saying the 60's was the weakest era in the NBA history, what's your arguments?

[asdf1990]

white midgets played in the 60's.

[alexandreben]

white midgets played in the 60's.

Well, if so, black midgets played in the 90's too, Charls Barkley, Dennis Rodman, Ben Wallace, etc.

[Simple Jack]

I know. There is no doubt that today's players are much better. In fact, put MJ, say in his 1991 season...some 20 years ago...into 2010, and I think he might be a 15-18 ppg player on about .430 shooting.

And I get a kick out anyone thinking that Shaq, of 2000, could outplay the players of today. Can you imagine Brook Lopez cleaning the floor with that fat a$$. And don't get me started on Olajuwon. There are high school kids today that would crush a '95 Hakeem.

Magic and Bird??? C'mon now! Those two clowns couldn't make their college team's of today.

Kareem? Does anyone honestly believe that Abdul-Jabbar, in his prime, could score at all against guys like Okur, Biedrins, and Kaman?

And surely, what would a prime Wilt, at over 7-1, and around 285 lbs, with around a 500 lb bench and a champion high-jumper leaping ability, combined with sprinter's speed be able to do against Jason Collins, Joaquim Noah?

You are an absolute idiot if you think those players could average those numbers today. Spencer Haywood is a better rebounder than nearly anyone we've seen in the past decade? Mel Daniels? Billy Cunningham? George McGinnis?

You are a clown.

[Fatal9]

the defense quality in 00's is much weaker than Oscar's era.

[PaperClip]

You are an absolute idiot if you think those players could average those numbers today. Spencer Haywood is a better rebounder than nearly anyone we've seen in the past decade? Mel Daniels? Billy Cunningham? George McGinnis?

You are a clown.

You fell for it.

[The Iron Fist]

He won't win an NBA title if he resign with the Cavs. Who's gonna coach the Cavs next season?

Bulls and Knicks are legendary franchises.

lol,

no, they're not.

[Simple Jack]

You fell for it.

No. Lauber actually believes his own Wilt/60's and 70's BS.

[jlauber]

The pace in the 60's was much higher than 00's, it's true, the pace also has more impact especially to the outside shooters than centers, also true.. one thing need to consider, the rules e.g. Hand-Checking, the defense quality in 00's is much weaker than Oscar's era.

LeBron will surpass Oscar in the very next few years without any doubt, but to me, they all lack of something, just like Jerry West said, the "killer instinct", the eye of the tiger.

For those who keep saying the 60's was the weakest era in the NBA history, what's your arguments?

While Fatal9 is ...obviously because he doesn't buy your theory of better defense in the 60's,...

how about these FACTS?

Kareem joined the NBA in 69-70. His most statistically dominating season's were very early in his career. In 70-71 he averaged 31.7 ppg on .577 shooting. In 71-72, he averaged 34.8 ppg on .574 shooting. And in the 72-73 season, he averaged 30.2 ppg on .554 shooting. Those are, quite simply, his three best seasons, EVER (especially if you factor in his rebounding numbers.)

Ok, so in the 70-71 playoffs, he shot .486 against Thurmond, and .481 against Wilt. In the 71-72 playoffs, Kareem shot .405 against Thurmond, and .457 against Wilt (however, in the last four games of that six game series, Kareem only shot .414.) In the 72-73 playoffs, Kareem shot .428 against Thurmond. And, in that last season, in six regular season games, Kareem shot .450 against Wilt. In fact, against Wilt, in his 28 CAREER games against Chamberlain, Kareem shot .464 (and his CAREER FG% is .559 BTW.) Incidently in their last 10 H2H meetings, Kareem only shot .434 against Wilt. AND, keep in mind that both Thurmond an Wilt were well past their peaks (Wilt retired after the 72-73 season.) Fortunately for Kareem, he did not have to face Russell, or a PRIME Thurmond or a PRIME Wilt.

Not only that but take look at Kareem, in the 70's, and in his PRIME. He had seasons of .518, .539, .529, and 513. His BEST season was in 76-77 (and long after Wilt and Thurmond retired) with a .579 FG%.

Now, take a look at Kareem, in the 80's, and nowhere near the physical force he was in the 70's. His rebounding numbers were AWFUL in the 80's. In fact, he had seasons in which Magic Johnson rebounded better (and in the EARLY 80's BTW.) STILL, aside from Kareem's last two years, at age 40 and 41, he shot .564, or BETTER in EIGHT seasons of the 80's. He had his HIGH season of .604 in the 80's, as well as .599 (at age 37), .588, and .579.

Fatal9 has kindly posted a three game stretch, in the 85-86 season, in which Kareem averaged 42 ppg against HAKEEM. Not only that, but in Abdul-Jabbar's LAST three seasons, at ages 39, 40, and 41, he shot a COMBINED .567 against Olajuwon in their 13 meetings.

Now...you tell me if the players of the 60's could not play defense!

[Samurai Swoosh]

Lol you gotta be kidding so your a lebron fan and not a team fan?

Get off your high horse ... who are you tell a fan who and what he can be a fan of when it comes to basketball.

[jlauber]

You are an absolute idiot if you think those players could average those numbers today. Spencer Haywood is a better rebounder than nearly anyone we've seen in the past decade? Mel Daniels? Billy Cunningham? George McGinnis?

You are a clown.

Just what the hell is this about? I don't think I have EVER mentioned those three players in terms of rebounding. But, let's examine them anyway. Haywood did have one season, in the ABA, in which he averaged 19.5 rpg. BUT, that was the ABA...and NOT the NBA, where the QUALITY centers played at the time. His BEST season in the NBA was at 13.4 rpg, in 73-74, ...in a league tha averaged 48 rpg per team. Compare that with the 09-10 in which the average NBA team grabbed 42. He also had three other seasons over 12 rpg. Yes, he was "only" 6-8, but don't feed me that crap about height. Who was the best rebounder in the 90's...yes, 6-8 Rodman. Even in the 00's we had 6-7 Ben Wallace leading the league twice. Incidently, Haywood averaged 22.1 and 21.5 rpg in college (and led the nation in his last year BTW.) What does all of that tell you??? IMHO, Haywood would average about 10-11 rpg in TODAY's NBA.

Billy Cunningham? He had an NBA CAREER rebound average of 10.1 rpg. His BEST season was in the 69-70 season, in which he averaged 13.6 rpg...which was in a league that averaged about 49 (I won't take the time to remove the team rebounds, but it would have dropped them down from the 53 rpg that was recorded, to around that level.) Now, Cunningham was a pretty good athlete, and was called "the Kangaroo Kid." IMHO, Cunningham would average about 9-10 rpg in today's NBA.

McGinnis? He didn't join the NBA until the 75-76 season, and averaged 9.8 rpg in his seven year NBA career. There is not much you can say here...maybe an 8 rpg guy in today's NBA?

Now, if you want to argue what the GREAT rebounders of the 60's and 70's would do in TODAY's era...Russell, Thurmond, Lucas, and Wilt....using basic math, anywhere from 15-18 (or possibly more in Wilt's case.) And, ALL four of them, at their peaks, would lead TODAY's NBA.

[Blazed22]

I even ranked Allen Iverson over Oscar Robertson. AI led his team in the NBA Finals as the number 1 scoring option of his team.

Ok sorry Lebron fans, but he's not greater than Oscar. At least not yet. Oscar is a Top 15 player of all-time, I'm sure there are people out there that could list at least 20 players greater than LeBron.

[jlauber]

Ok sorry Lebron fans, but he's not greater than Oscar. At least not yet. Oscar is a Top 15 player of all-time, I'm sure there are people out there that could list at least 20 players greater than LeBron.

Agreed. I DO believe that after Lebron's career is over, he will PROBABLY be ranked higher. But, clearly, not after only seven seasons. Oscar was the best guard in the NBA in the entire decade of the 60's (and West was a close 2nd.) Let's see what James' career looks like after 14 seasons.

[alexandreben]

While Fatal9 is ...obviously because he doesn't buy your theory of better defense in the 60's,...

how about these FACTS?

Kareem joined the NBA in 69-70. His most statistically dominating season's were very early in his career. In 70-71 he averaged 31.7 ppg on .577 shooting. In 71-72, he averaged 34.8 ppg on .574 shooting. And in the 72-73 season, he averaged 30.2 ppg on .554 shooting. Those are, quite simply, his three best seasons, EVER (especially if you factor in his rebounding numbers.)

Ok, so in the 70-71 playoffs, he shot .486 against Thurmond, and .481 against Wilt. In the 71-72 playoffs, Kareem shot .405 against Thurmond, and .457 against Wilt (however, in the last four games of that six game series, Kareem only shot .414.) In the 72-73 playoffs, Kareem shot .428 against Thurmond. And, in that last season, in six regular season games, Kareem shot .450 against Wilt. In fact, against Wilt, in his 28 CAREER games against Chamberlain, Kareem shot .464 (and his CAREER FG% is .559 BTW.) Incidently in their last 10 H2H meetings, Kareem only shot .434 against Wilt. AND, keep in mind that both Thurmond an Wilt were well past their peaks (Wilt retired after the 72-73 season.) Fortunately for Kareem, he did not have to face Russell, or a PRIME Thurmond or a PRIME Wilt.

Not only that but take look at Kareem, in the 70's, and in his PRIME. He had seasons of .518, .539, .529, and 513. His BEST season was in 76-77 (and long after Wilt and Thurmond retired) with a .579 FG%.

Now, take a look at Kareem, in the 80's, and nowhere near the physical force he was in the 70's. His rebounding numbers were AWFUL in the 80's. In fact, he had seasons in which Magic Johnson rebounded better (and in the EARLY 80's BTW.) STILL, aside from Kareem's last two years, at age 40 and 41, he shot .564, or BETTER in EIGHT seasons of the 80's. He had his HIGH season of .604 in the 80's, as well as .599 (at age 37), .588, and .579.

Fatal9 has kindly posted a three game stretch, in the 85-86 season, in which Kareem averaged 42 ppg against HAKEEM. Not only that, but in Abdul-Jabbar's LAST three seasons, at ages 39, 40, and 41, he shot a COMBINED .567 against Olajuwon in their 13 meetings.

Now...you tell me if the players of the 60's could not play defense!

Jlauber, well said

Here's a quote of Wilt Chamberlain's comment on the defense in his late career(it was late 60's and early 70's in case anyone still wants to say the 60's defense sucks):

"My last two or three years I shot 69 to 73 percent. [COLOR="DarkRed"]You think I was a better shooter? No, the defenses got worse[/COLOR] and I was able to dunk every damn ball I wanted to. It was easier to get there. When I played against guys like Johnny Kerr . . . He was 6-10 and couldn't jump, but I'll tell you, you didn't get to the basket on him."'

-1982"


Anyone can help to find some reference that KAJ said something similar please, what's his comments on defense from 70's to 80's?