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Old 05-22-2019, 01:41 AM   #31
1987_Lakers
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Default Re: Andre Iguodala on Stephen Curry: 'I think he's the second best ever'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamtaro CP3KDKG


change ur username. Magic was a far better playoff performer than Steph and could impact the game through a much greater and wider array

Didn't you tell me Houston was beating Golden State?
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:46 AM   #32
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Default Re: Andre Iguodala on Stephen Curry: 'I think he's the second best ever'

Magic, Jerry and Oscar were clearly better PGs

among players

MJ
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Shaq
Hakeem
Wilt
Russell
Bran
KG
Robinson
Dr J
Dirk
Wade
KD
Jerry
Oscar
Moses
Barkley

are all clearly better players
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:55 AM   #33
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Default Re: Andre Iguodala on Stephen Curry: 'I think he's the second best ever'

The fact that you have Moses on there just shows you don't know what you are talking about. Moses Malone who was an all-time great rebounder, but was a horrific passer and not much of a defensive force like other all-time great centers. He didn't make his teammates better. Oscar and West couldn't even dribble with their left hand but they are better than Curry? Ok. The fact that people still think those 60's legends would be as good in today's league is hilarious. I respect them for making this league for what it is today, but the league is so far advanced today it's not even funny.

People usually don't realize how great a current superstar is during their peak up until their final seasons or when they are retired, it's a trend you see all the time. Curry's prime is on par with any other point guard in history. We have never seen a PG with his scoring skills and we have never seen a player with his shooting ability.

Last edited by 1987_Lakers : 05-22-2019 at 01:59 AM.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:10 AM   #34
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Default Re: Andre Iguodala on Stephen Curry: 'I think he's the second best ever'

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Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers
The fact that you have Moses on there just shows you don't know what you are talking about. Moses Malone who was an all-time great rebounder, but was a horrific passer and not much of a defensive force like other all-time great centers. He didn't make his teammates better. Oscar and West couldn't even dribble with their left hand but they are better than Curry? Ok. The fact that people still think those 60's legends would be as good in today's league is hilarious. I respect them for making this league for what it is today, but the league is so far advanced today it's not even funny.

People usually don't realize how great a current superstar is during their peak up until their final seasons or when they are retired, it's a trend you see all the time. Curry's prime is on par with any other point guard in history. We have never seen a PG with his scoring skills and we have never seen a player with his shooting ability.

Oscar and Jerry both dribbled with their left hands. Watch some film of them sometime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=imnInavihhg

Oscar was a bigger CP3 without injury problems and Jerry was a Steph/Wade hybrid with elite defense.

U could out Steph over Moses i wont fight over that

Steph is in a system that cuddles his inability on defense better than any other great

his defensive issues were a constant problem until Draymond emerged. Its easy being a defensive sieve when u have the best help defender of ur generation on ur team who u play almost all of ur minutes with along with Klay, Iggy and KD. In the past Bogut as well and now Looney

Stephs defensive issues would be much more pronounced on teams that werent stacked on defense
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:13 AM   #35
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Default Re: Andre Iguodala on Stephen Curry: 'I think he's the second best ever'

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Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers
Didn't you tell me Houston was beating Golden State?

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Old 05-22-2019, 02:18 AM   #36
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Default Re: Andre Iguodala on Stephen Curry: 'I think he's the second best ever'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamtaro CP3KDKG
Oscar and Jerry both dribbled with their left hands. Watch some film of them sometime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=imnInavihhg

Oscar was a bigger CP3 without injury problems and Jerry was a Steph/Wade hybrid with elite defense.

U could out Steph over Moses i wont fight over that

Steph is in a system that cuddles his inability on defense better than any other great

his defensive issues were a constant problem until Draymond emerged. Its easy being a defensive sieve when u have the best help defender of ur generation on ur team who u play almost all of ur minutes with along with Klay, Iggy and KD. In the past Bogut as well and now Looney

Stephs defensive issues would be much more pronounced on teams that werent stacked on defense

It's no damn secret most if not all guards were dominant right hand dribblers in that era, barley using their left, this includes West and Oscar. Educate yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyz_MuMZ6RY (look at the 22 sec mark where West is looking down while dribbling left)

You really gonna call him better than Steph? GTFO.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:22 AM   #37
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Default Re: Andre Iguodala on Stephen Curry: 'I think he's the second best ever'

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Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers
It's no damn secret most if not all guards were dominant right hand dribblers in that era, barley using their left, this includes West and Oscar. Educate yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyz_MuMZ6RY (look at the 22 sec mark where West is looking down while dribbling left)

You really gonna call him better than Steph? GTFO.

most players now that are right handed dribblers are right hand dominant urselves why are u pretending like every ballhandler now uses their left hand on every possession?

im 22 seconds in and Jerry already made a move to his left with his left hand dribbles against a GOAT defender in Bill Russell

watch some tape on some of these legends instead of spewing Reddit rhetoric

Why dont we compare Jerry West and Stephs defense? How would that look?
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:22 AM   #38
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Default Re: Andre Iguodala on Stephen Curry: 'I think he's the second best ever'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamtaro CP3KDKG

Steph is in a system that cuddles his inability on defense better than any other great

his defensive issues were a constant problem until Draymond emerged. Its easy being a defensive sieve when u have the best help defender of ur generation on ur team who u play almost all of ur minutes with along with Klay, Iggy and KD. In the past Bogut as well and now Looney

Stephs defensive issues would be much more pronounced on teams that werent stacked on defense

The funny thing is, Magic was a horrific defender, especially as he entered his peak up until he retired, worse than Steph. Yet, you laughed when I said Curry had a better peak. You had guys like Cooper and Scott always guarding the point guards while the Lakers always hid Magic on the defensive end. At least Curry has the ability to stay in front of his man on the defensive end, Magic had no shot of that.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:24 AM   #39
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Default Re: Andre Iguodala on Stephen Curry: 'I think he's the second best ever'

I agree with Iguodala
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:27 AM   #40
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Default Re: Andre Iguodala on Stephen Curry: 'I think he's the second best ever'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamtaro CP3KDKG
most players now that are right handed dribblers are right hand dominant urselves why are u pretending like every ballhandler now uses their left hand on every possession?

im 22 seconds in and Jerry already made a move to his left with his left hand dribbles against a GOAT defender in Bill Russell

watch some tape on some of these legends instead of spewing Reddit rhetoric

Why dont we compare Jerry West and Stephs defense? How would that look?

Their ball handling skills were not refined, just look how awkward they look dribbling, Big O was even worse with his left hand, yet you have him over Steph. Just shows how clueless you are. "But he averaged a triple double".


The fact that you think guards from the 60's have the same refined ball-handling skills as guards today is actually hilarious.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:31 AM   #41
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Default Re: Andre Iguodala on Stephen Curry: 'I think he's the second best ever'

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Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers
The funny thing is, Magic was a horrific defender, especially as he entered his peak up until he retired, worse than Steph. Yet, you laughed when I said Curry had a better peak. You had guys like Cooper and Scott always guarding the point guards while the Lakers always hid Magic on the defensive end. At least Curry has the ability to stay in front of his man on the defensive end, Magic had no shot of that.

Magic was too big to guard actual guards. Yes they blew by him but hes fcking 6'9 220 Magics defense wasnt an issue against the 3s/4s he often got matched up with. And Magic is one of the biggest matchup nightmares b/c of this, Magic is a much better rebounder, has the size/strength for switching not to be as much an issue. Magics defense early in his career was much better than Stephs ever was and he guarded forwards better than Steph can guard guards

LOL @ Steph having the ability to stay in front of his man. We just watched a series in Houston where dudes like Austin Rivers were blowing by him with ease and their gameplan consisted of exposing his defense on switches. Magic was a key part of the Lakers trapping defense in 1982. He was great at forcing turnovers and using his lengths and smarts to trap and contest passes. He was never a great defender but u can never build a defense with Steph being a key part of it. Hes always the liability on that end for his team and Kerr routinely benches him in final possessions b/c of his defense. That never happened with Magic

and ive always put guys like Kobe over Magic b/c of his defensive limitations too. I always said on here Magic gets rated too highly as ppl ignore his defensive issues.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:32 AM   #42
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Default Re: Andre Iguodala on Stephen Curry: 'I think he's the second best ever'

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Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers
Their ball handling skills were not refined, just look how awkward they look dribbling, Big O was even worse with his left hand, yet you have him over Steph. Just shows how clueless you are. "But he averaged a triple double".


The fact that you think guards from the 60's have the same refined ball-handling skills as guards today is actually hilarious.

Strawmen

Guards today have far better ball handling ability

Oscar and Jerry were outliers. Theyd easily translate to this era. I didnt say that means every guard from the 60s would.

nice try
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:40 AM   #43
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Default Re: Andre Iguodala on Stephen Curry: 'I think he's the second best ever'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamtaro CP3KDKG
Strawmen

Guards today have far better ball handling ability

Oscar and Jerry were outliers. Theyd easily translate to this era. I didnt say that means every guard from the 60s would.

nice try

No they were not, their ball-handling abilities would be bottom tier in today's league. Even Wilt Chamberlain's post moves were straight up laughable and I don't blame them, they played when the NBA was a young league. Kareem was the first dominant big man who actually had a smooth offensive game.

Last edited by 1987_Lakers : 05-22-2019 at 02:45 AM.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:44 AM   #44
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Default Re: Andre Iguodala on Stephen Curry: 'I think he's the second best ever'

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Originally Posted by Hamtaro CP3KDKG
Magic was too big to guard actual guards. Yes they blew by him but hes fcking 6'9 220 Magics defense wasnt an issue against the 3s/4s he often got matched up with. And Magic is one of the biggest matchup nightmares b/c of this, Magic is a much better rebounder, has the size/strength for switching not to be as much an issue. Magics defense early in his career was much better than Stephs ever was and he guarded forwards better than Steph can guard guards

LOL @ Steph having the ability to stay in front of his man. We just watched a series in Houston where dudes like Austin Rivers were blowing by him with ease and their gameplan consisted of exposing his defense on switches. Magic was a key part of the Lakers trapping defense in 1982. He was great at forcing turnovers and using his lengths and smarts to trap and contest passes. He was never a great defender but u can never build a defense with Steph being a key part of it. Hes always the liability on that end for his team and Kerr routinely benches him in final possessions b/c of his defense. That never happened with Magic

and ive always put guys like Kobe over Magic b/c of his defensive limitations too. I always said on here Magic gets rated too highly as ppl ignore his defensive issues.

Make no mistake about it, Magic's defense became a straight up joke as he aged. Doesn't change the fact that he was an all-time great offensive player. I have Magic's peak ranked very highly as an offensive player, similar to Curry. Both play a different style so it's hard to say who is the better player, it's all about preference, but I would take Curry because of his insane shooting, the attention he receives from defenders is something I haven't seen since peak Shaq.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:36 AM   #45
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Default Re: Andre Iguodala on Stephen Curry: 'I think he's the second best ever'

First let me address this....

Quote:
No they were not, their ball-handling abilities would be bottom tier in today's league. Even Wilt Chamberlain's post moves were straight up laughable and I don't blame them, they played when the NBA was a young league. Kareem was the first dominant big man who actually had a smooth offensive game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMUTyjCR158

Watch that and tell me Willis reed wasnt polished. He was out in the 60s.

Now....

Quote:
The fact that people still think those 60's legends would be as good in today's league is hilarious.



Totally irrelevant. Not a little bit. Totally. 100%.

What some guy 50 years ago would do now matters as much as what someone now would do in a league that wouldnt allow them to play as they do. If its 1970 and a 30 footer is the same points as GP posting up for an easy 2....why do I want Steph over Gary Payton exactly? Hed have a worse fitting offensive game while being so far behind on defense it would sound mean trying to articulate it. If a 3 is worth 2....why guard Steph especially close from 25-30 feet like you do now? Hes not spacing the floor then. Hes still a great scorer....but has no reason to play like he does now. Hes an attacker. He has to play more physical ball. And as I said...in a game predicated on getting the ball 18 feet and in....guards posting up....man to man D...why is Steph better than Payton exactly? He isnt. But it doesnt matter...because they dont play in 1970.

And thats ignoring the many other downsides of Steph being in the NBA 50-60 years ago. he struggles with health at times with modern medicine and being pampered with low minutes, rest days, and world class accommodations.


Give him a league with no air conditioning, no team doctors in many cases(the Lakers did have one but not on the road), riding in regular buses and taking coach flights on 60s sized planes, sleeping in the bus on the road in the south when blacks cant have a room, playing in shoes made of poster board, 46 minutes a game, with 25 preseason games before Gatorade existed on floors that were warped, some that leaked from the hockey ice under them, with rims that were not breakaway and would bend over time while refs actually call traveling and palming all the time.

That sound like an ideal situation for a non physical shooter who needs "load management" while being treated like a king?

Steph would be great no matter who he played against...but he wouldnt win in the 60s without a superteam. Sure he would do numbers. All the greats did. But when Wilt loses with 78/43, 68/23, 67/21, 65/23, 62/28(all the same season) and on and on it goes...you think Stephs 55/12 makes his team automatically contend? You think the 40/10 he could give the Celtics makes his team win when Baylors 41/18 series didnt? Yea he could drop 60. Baylor dropped 60. Rick Barrys 41/9 for the series couldnt get close to winning it. Stephs 40 count at 80? Minus the spacing from 3s why would his numbers be more of a difference maker?

Steph cant guard Oscar in the post. They put forwards on Oscar who couldnt. Steph would light him up and get lit up in return. Gus Johnson was 6'6'' 240 and athletic. He couldnt stop Oscar in the post. Whats Steph gonna do about that with all his advanced handles?


Steph would be the most "advanced" player in the league and lose anyway. There was no parity. It doesnt matter if you have Steph...or Wilt...or baylor. What good is your 50 when the final score is 140-130 and the other team has 4 players better than your #2 and 10 players better than your #3? A guy like Walt Bellamy was more advanced than those guys. Big...athletic. Had 12 40 point games one year...lost 11 of them. Great...you got 47/20. But the Celtics had 5 hall of famers starting with 2 off the bench. They played 8 people. 7 in the hall of fame.


Steph in the 60s would be a territorial pick who went to the worst team in the league(Pistons...the Royals were actually further away though they were in the state with Akron). He could score all he wanted. We would be on here now talking about his stat padding in losses. If he got lucky and maybe went to the Hawks(lets call Charlotte his hometown...thats closest ) hed be on a better team.....ruled by racists who wouldnt let him play. He might well be Cleo Hill. A spectacular guard who ate up the stars(Including Bob Petitt) in practice and had the coach ready to build the team around him. THe 3 star white guys in a still segregated town went straight to the owner to force the coach to bench him. Coach refused...this was maybe his best player or second after Bob. What does the owner do?

Fire the coach and make Petitt player/coach who benched Hill and told him to come in and give it to the white guys. Turns out Cleos career high game? The first game of his career. The team was demanding he get less touches after that ONE good game. He never did anything after his coach was fired a couple weeks into the season. Retired having played one season being treated like shit.

Thats where a 60s Curry goes with the territorial draft rules.

Todays players are way too pampered to even begin to compare them to what guys like Oscar had to put up with.

But it doesnt matter what Steph might do with worse nutrition, travel, workload, teammates, courts, doctors, shoes, social situations, and rules for his game.

It matters what he does now. It matters what they did then.

The rest is fantasy.

It being stupid to take a 30 footer for 2 when the lane is thinner and your center can post up 6 feet from the basket the entire possession doesnt have anything to do with how good Steph is now. Now is now. Then is then.

We would barely recognize his game played under 60s restrictions/rules/social settings. The first time he took a stepback jumper and shimmied after it dropped even though his big had post position his own owner might storm the court and call him a showboating coonskin.
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