#1 NBA Player Peak Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

[TheMan]

Shaq at his peak would have destroyed any of those guys. You can't penalize a player because of a perceived lack of competition at his position.

When you're discussing the best at their peak there was almost always a lack of peers.

Prime Hakeem vs prime Shaq would be a great match up, I'm not buying this "Shaq would destroy Hakeem" BS...a nearing the end of his peak Olajuwon ass fvcked Shaq in the 95 Finals. It's not like 95 Shaq got 10 times better by 2000.

[daily]

Prime Hakeem vs prime Shaq would be a great match up, I'm not buying this "Shaq would destroy Hakeem" BS...a nearing the end of his peak Olajuwon ass f.vcked Shaq in the 95 Finals. It's not like 95 Shaq got 10 times better by 2000.

2000 Shaq was a beast compared to 95 Shaq. Don't look at the the scoring numbers offense was easy for Shaq. His defense was light years better by 2000

individual defensive rating from 104 down to 95 (lower is better)
defensive winshares up from 4.4 to 7.0 (higher is better)
PER (this is where you use PER) up from 26.4 to 30.6

These are huge leaps for a man that plays within a limited range from the basket

[pauk]

Shaq at around 2000 is personally the most dominant **** ive seen in my life...

[TheMan]

So?

Shaq was a very good post defender. Nobody, NOBODY could back Shaq down. His length was insane, he was the strongest player in league history, and relatively quick for a guy his size. Hakeem/Robinson/whoever would have had a very hard time with 00 Shaq. They would lose the position battle every single time, and they would be forced to post up from awkwardly far spots from the hoop. Their only hope would be if the ref was calling puss fouls because of Shaqs otherworldly strength.

And by Hakeem "outplaying" Shaq your talking about Sophomore Shaq on the Magic and Hakeem in his prime. This thread is about peak play. I don't care about young Shaq, we're talking about Peak Shaq.

Next.

That's all fine and dandy but Hakeem didn't need to get on the block to be effective, he could easily get the ball 15 feet away from the basket and face up Shaq. Hakeem could shoot it in your face or drive past you...obviously you never saw a prime Hakeem.

[TheMan]

I'm in the Hakeem is overrated camp. Great center but nowhere as great as the myth that follows him

Peak Shaq was unstoppable

Dude, if anything, Hakeem is UNDERRATED...literally had a ton of moves, could shoot from 15 feet (I don't think Shaq ever hit a 15 foot jumper his whole career), could face you up and take it to the rim, xould pass like a mofo, great defender, shot blocker and rebounder...oh, and he could shoot free throws. Take a look at his role players, probably the the most underwhelming team mates ever to win back to back (Drexler was way past his prime by 95).

The Dream is not overrated, maybe by kids but those who saw him know what's up.

[G.O.A.T]

I agree...what's your recommendation? As I said, I'm not terribly comfortable with one year (leaves it open to extreme outliers), but MJ's listing is too long. I'd say 2 year minimum, 5 year maximum.

I'd say 2-4 seasons plus playoffs. Eliminates anything less than Walton (and still hurts his cause with the '78 playoffs) and limits it to a time when the players physical and fundamental skills were at their peak. Plus if you allow it to stretch too much, longevity of peak becomes a factor and to me that defeats the purpose of peak discussion.

I'd also consider accepting nominations for what each players peak is...already with Wilt's being 60-64 I'm turned off. Those certainly weren't his best years in my opinion. From '66-'68 he owned the MVP voting and had it not been for injuries one title may have been two or three.

I think the thing about this type of poll is that only the greatest players of all-time (with a few minor exceptions) will be in consideration.

Here are my choices for four-year peak spans of the top ten players:

Jordan '90-'93
Russell '62'-'65
Wilt '65'-'68
Kareem '77-'80
Magic '87'-'90
Bird '84-'87
Shaq '99-'02
Duncan '02-'05
Kobe '06-'09
Hakeem '93-'96

Beyond that some others worthy of consideration for the top ten (excluding Mikan because it's not worth the time)

Doctor J '74-'77
West '69-'72
Moses '80-'83
Walton '77-'78
LeBron '09-'12
================
Honorable Mention
================
Barkley '90-'93
Baylor '59-'62
Oscar '62-'65
Frazier '70-'73
Cowens '73-'76
Pettit '56-'59
McAdoo '74-'76
Gervin '79-'82
Nash '05-'08

[CarlosBoozer]

shaq 2000-2002

[Timmy D for MVP]

Jordan.

[fpliii]

I'd say 2-4 seasons plus playoffs. Eliminates anything less than Walton (and still hurts his cause with the '78 playoffs) and limits it to a time when the players physical and fundamental skills were at their peak. Plus if you allow it to stretch too much, longevity of peak becomes a factor and to me that defeats the purpose of peak discussion.

I'd also consider accepting nominations for what each players peak is...already with Wilt's being 60-64 I'm turned off. Those certainly weren't his best years in my opinion. From '66-'68 he owned the MVP voting and had it not been for injuries one title may have been two or three.

I think the thing about this type of poll is that only the greatest players of all-time (with a few minor exceptions) will be in consideration.

Here are my choices for four-year peak spans of the top ten players:

Jordan '90-'93
Russell '62'-'65
Wilt '65'-'68
Kareem '77-'80
Magic '87'-'90
Bird '84-'87
Shaq '99-'02
Duncan '02-'05
Kobe '06-'09
Hakeem '93-'96

Beyond that some others worthy of consideration for the top ten (excluding Mikan because it's not worth the time)

Doctor J '74-'77
West '69-'72
Moses '80-'83
Walton '77-'78
LeBron '09-'12
================
Honorable Mention
================
Barkley '90-'93
Baylor '59-'62
Oscar '62-'65
Frazier '70-'73
Cowens '73-'76
Pettit '56-'59
McAdoo '74-'76
Gervin '79-'82
Nash '05-'08

thanks for the input

I'm on board with most of these (in particular Wilt, assuming the first season is 64-65), but I have a few questions:

[TheMan]

Would appreciate your take on this:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=276243

Great article.

As a Bulls fan, the Rockets always scared me because of Hakeem, I'm glad we didn't have to face them

Hakeem did the most with the least for a repeat champion, anyone who says Hakeem is overrated just doesn't know basketball.

And let's be honest, Shaq, as great as he was, for the most part, feasted on low quality centers in the early 2000s. Hakeem had his way with higher quality big men in the 80s/90s...

[G.O.A.T]

[QUOTE=fpliii]thanks for the input

I'm on board with most of these (in particular Wilt, assuming the first season is 64-65), but I have a few questions:

[fpliii]

As for the end point, his play in the '93 Finals makes me certain it was still his prime. He never performed better. A 55-point game and three more 40+ games in a six game series is Jerry West good, except his team won the series as an underdog, not lost it as a favorite.

As for the starting point, watching the '89 and '90 series up close, we (the Pistons) were lucky to win in 1990, in 1989 we were clearly better than the Bulls. I give Jordan most of the credit for their growth over the next 18 months because of his willingness to share responsibilities more with teammates.




You nailed it. The Championship is the tie-breaker. Plus he was so good in the '02 Finals. In '98 he was amazing, but his dedication to defense lacked and despite having guys like Fox, Horry and Eddie Jones playing major minutes (all above average defenders at the 2-4 spots) the Lakers were an average defensive team. Phil's influence on Shaq (as evidenced additionally in many of Phil's books) is significant, especially as it pertains to defense. (Wish I had the book for quotes right now)

purely the title. Guy deserved it so much it seems unfair to cut it out of his prime run.



Got the most first place votes for MVP that year, won a playoff series with an underwhelming cast around him and by '94 the injuries had taken away from the player he was noticeably. It's a shame Barkley didn't get to Phoenix three years prior. One or two titles seem assured had he.

sounds good, thanks for the responses

for whatever reason, the other two guys who I'd expect to receive votes (Kareem and Bird) have not done so to this point; Dr. J as well, but opinions on the ABA vary here

if we're talking about dominance with respect to competition to Mikan he obviously deserves to be up there with those 6 (or 7), but I'd prefer to avoid opening up that can of worms (kblaze was on point in the top XXX players of all time thread)

[scandisk_]

90-93 MJ really pushed it, loved his grit and intensity.

[Boston C's]

I'll go Jordan here...but slightly

[julizaver]

Vote for Wilt 65 -68.

MJ peak is from 87-93 in my opinion. Give credit to WIlt for changing his style and become complete team player.