So out of the 15 players who made the all nba teams, 4 were from the east.

[guy]

How were the 12 and 13 Thunder pretenders?

It is one thing to say they weren't playing at an optimal level given their talent, but it is another to call them pretenders.

I don't see any sound logic or reason to support teams like the 12 and 13 Thunder as pretenders as you claim.

I'd argue your math is probably off. I'd probably argue a team with prime MJ is a little more of a favorite than you are saying, but that makes my point for me.

If a team with prime MJ is only 50% or so to win the title...it really matters
the road these teams go down and those matchups turn out to be.

Last, I'm not speculating this would make a better product. Of course I think it would, but my point is about creating a more fair system...which I think leads into the better product.

But that isn't speculating...it's simply a fact that seeding 1-16 creates a more fair system over time.

Teams like that that don't move the ball against other great teams don't win titles. That's why they were pretenders. Its one thing if there was just a huge talent disparity between them and every other team in the league, but there wasn't. Yes, they wouldn't be pretenders if the competition was that weak cause it is all relative, but that's an unrealistic expectation of a scenario.

Math isn't off. Do it yourself. 90%x80%x70%x60% = 30% probability of winning the title. Even if you wanted to say its 100%, 90%, 75%, 60%, that's still only a 41% probability of the winning the title, which still seems really low for Jordan's Bulls. Using the 41% probability as an average for all 6 title years, that would've meant that there was a less then 0.5 percent chance they would've won 6. Obviously what the Bulls did was incredibly impressive and difficult, but for a team with Jordan, its really hard to believe that. Like I said, I can't really argue against math, but its just really difficult to look at the game that way when that's the case. The NBA would not be as predictable if these held up.

[Optimus Prime]

People are seriously putting the Raptors on the same level as the Warriors, Thunder and Spurs?

Clippers >>>>>>>>> Raptors, and I can't stand the Clippers. It's not even close. The Least is a dumpster fire, and unless there is all of a suddenly a massive migration of talent going east, it's going to remain a one-team trash heap for the foreseeable future.

Straight up comparing W/L records is ridiculous, because Least teams play each other...what is it...2/3rds of the time? So LeBron and his Superfriends get to beat up on the likes of the Raptors, Hawks and Celtics while the Warriors have to play the likes of the Thunder, Spurs and Clippers. Come on man.

LeBron stans are super shook and insecure because they know it's all true.

[kamil]

People are seriously putting the Raptors on the same level as the Warriors, Thunder and Spurs?

Clippers >>>>>>>>> Raptors, and I can't stand the Clippers. It's not even close. The Least is a dumpster fire, and unless there is all of a suddenly a massive migration of talent going east, it's going to remain a one-team trash heap for the foreseeable future.

Straight up comparing W/L records is ridiculous, because Least teams play each other...what is it...2/3rds of the time? So LeBron and his Superfriends get to beat up on the likes of the Raptors, Hawks and Celtics while the Warriors have to play the likes of the Thunder, Spurs and Clippers. Come on man.

LeBron stans are super shook and insecure because they know it's all true.

If they had any integrity, they'd admit it's true too. But integrity for LeBron* and his fans don't go together.

[Lebronxrings]

and only 1 lives rent free in OP

[Dresta]

so.. you're admitting that those two first games of the playoffs you were pimping in your earlier posts, were a fluke and that you're shitty offense in the following games was the real barometer for good a team you are?



you're basically proving what I've been saying all along.

Seriously, what the f*ck are you talking about? You're making no sense whatsoever .

In no way was that post admitting anything. Miami had one of the league's best offenses post all-star break, and it wasn't predicated on being a team with a bunch of great 3 point shooters. In the playoffs, when you play the same team game after game, you make minute adjustments, you disrupt an opponent's offense as you get used to who you're defending, and you frustrate them, push them from the spots where they're comfortable, etc. That's what happens in the playoffs, and it's what happened to Miami (which is a young and inexperienced team, missing 2 of its 3 best players), which is why it ended up being just Wade. You've literally understood and comprehended nothing. Your understanding of the game of basketball is really really poor.

[DMAVS41]

Teams like that that don't move the ball against other great teams don't win titles. That's why they were pretenders. Its one thing if there was just a huge talent disparity between them and every other team in the league, but there wasn't. Yes, they wouldn't be pretenders if the competition was that weak cause it is all relative, but that's an unrealistic expectation of a scenario.

Math isn't off. Do it yourself. 90%x80%x70%x60% = 30% probability of winning the title. Even if you wanted to say its 100%, 90%, 75%, 60%, that's still only a 41% probability of the winning the title, which still seems really low for Jordan's Bulls. Using the 41% probability as an average for all 6 title years, that would've meant that there was a less then 0.5 percent chance they would've won 6. Obviously what the Bulls did was incredibly impressive and difficult, but for a team with Jordan, its really hard to believe that. Like I said, I can't really argue against math, but its just really difficult to look at the game that way when that's the case. The NBA would not be as predictable if these held up.

So the 12 Spurs were pretenders in your opinion? Like...okay...

I wasn't saying the calculation was off. I'm saying the odds you gave out er off. I don't think those Bulls were ever under 75% in any series personally.

But again...you are making my point for me. If even a team with prime MJ can conceivably lose...then there are more sleeping contenders than your side is admitting.

You understand that your sides almost entire argument is it doesn't matter because the champ is always going to be the same. So I don't follow.

The NBA isn't as predictable as you are claiming. It was in the past, but it has changed a lot over the last 15 or so years.

Just in recent memory:

04 Pistons huge upset
06 Mavs over Spurs
07 Warriors
08 Lakers favored in finals
Magic over Cavs in 09
Grizzlies over Spurs in 11
11 Mavs
12 Thunder upset Spurs
12 Thunder favored over Heat
Thunder over the Spurs this year
Potentially Thunder over Warriors this year

Clippers beating the Spurs last year and then losing to the Rockets...

Literally I can think of those in a 30 second response and I'm sure I've forgotten a few.

You are looking back and pretending it was predictable, but it wasn't....not even close.

[ArbitraryWater]

'12 and '13 OKC were pretenders?

[DMAVS41]

'12 and '13 OKC were pretenders?

I know...the ignorance

[Hey Yo]

Do fans really need to see the #1 seed play the 16th seed?

2nd play the 15th? an so on?

People already bbitch about the 1 playing the 8 and say it's a waste of time.

What happens when a star player gets hurt and is done for the season because his 2 seeded team was wasting their time and the fans time by playing the 15th seed??

What kind of ratings is the 1vs16.... 2vs15.....3vs14 going to draw??

Anyone???

[tpols]

Seriously, what the f*ck are you talking about? You're making no sense whatsoever .

In no way was that post admitting anything. Miami had one of the league's best offenses post all-star break, and it wasn't predicated on being a team with a bunch of great 3 point shooters.

Actually it was.

8. JOE JOHNSON’S GRAVITY

Miami’s signing of Joe Johnson was arguably the best in-season transaction in the league this year. It’s also difficult to argue a team needing a specific talent from a transaction more than Miami needed Johnson for his shooting ability.

Since joining Miami, Johnson has gone 15-24 (62.5%) from three. What has been more interesting to watch is how often Johnson has been double teamed since joining Miami.

Additinally, Josh Richardson, who shot only 20% from three point land, is shooting 61% from there in their post all star streak.

Joe Johnson and Josh Richardson were HUGE during that post all star game run with their shooting and the resulting spacing made Miami look like a sharp, crisp team that could benefit their bread and butter dragic and wade's slashing games..

When that shooting went to shit after two games in the playoffs.. so did the Heats whole offense. Deng and JJ's inability to hit shots and spread the floor made your team awful, and clearly, even when healthy they were never on SAS or GSW level.


Thats what I've been trying to explain to you .. and you seem to agree with it from this statement below:

That's what happens in the playoffs, and it's what happened to Miami (which is a young and inexperienced team, missing 2 of its 3 best players), which is why it ended up being just Wade.

which is why I'm puzzled as to what it is your arguing.. you admit the team outside Wade sucked, yet you think Heat could be on the level of 70 win teams stacked with talent.

are you confused.. ?

oh wait, I just remembered you're an enormous Wade fanatic. It all makes sense now.