Impressive or Expected that Jordan at 40 was a better player than Lebron at 18?

[3ball]

Or it could be that lebron just got a lot better

Except Lebron's increase was part of a LEAGUE-WIDE increase that was the largest in 30 years.

League-wide offensive rating increased from 102.9 in the 2003-2004 season (Lebron's rookie year), to 106.1 in 2004-2005 - this was the largest increase in 30 years!!!

The league-wide increase was due to the rule changes designed to "open up the game" as the NBA has stated many times - and Lebron's increase was a part of this league-wide increase.
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[Smoke117]

you are wrong and it's common knowledge.

The rule changes were created in 2001, but only tested in the D-league and not instituted in the NBA until the 2004-2005 season.

This is common knowledge and a simple Google search will easily confirm this.

indeed, Lebron' numbers took a massive jump from his rookie year to his 2nd year that can't all be explained away by turning 19.

what else happened in the 2004-2005 season that might have affected his numbers.... hmmmm... can anyone think of anything??..

oh right... the nba instituted massive rule changes beginning in the 2004-2005 season designed to "open up the game".... maybe that had something to do with it.

Wrong. That was the 05-06 season. His first two years were before the big changes in the 06 season that saw all kinds of players going off.

[3ball]

Wrong. That was the 05-06 season. His first two years were before the big changes in the 06 season that saw all kinds of players going off.

it was the 2004-2005 season... this is common knowledge and not disputable at all... don't make me find the proof... it'll only take 5 minutes but it would be a waste of my time.

as for players going off - the stats show that league-wide Ortg increased during the 2004-2005 season more than it had in 30 years... so clearly, THAT is when everyone started going off.. again, not disputable.

[ImKobe]

it was the 2004-2005 season... this is common knowledge and not disputable at all... don't make me find the proof... it'll only take 5 minutes but it would be a waste of my time.

as for players going off - the stats show that league-wide Ortg increased during the 2004-2005 season more than it had in 30 years... so clearly, THAT is when everyone started going off.. again, not disputable.

This is true. Cuban pushed the NBA to make the changes prior to the 04-05 season after Pistons abused Kobe by exploiting the rules, which led to a league-wide boom offensively. But more players went off in 05-06 (Kobe, Iverson, Melo, Lebron, Wade).

[OldSchoolBBall]

40 year old MJ was the back half of his last season and he SUCKED.

source: I had the misfortune of being a Wizards fan at the time

After turning age 40, Jordan averaged 23/7/4/1.5 stl/46% FG over the final 30 games of the season. Yeah...he sucked.

[ralph_i_el]

After turning age 40, Jordan averaged 23/7/4/1.5 stl/46% FG over the final 30 games of the season. Yeah...he sucked.

46% sucks when you aren't drawing fouls or shooting 3's

MJ at that point was a shameless chucker taking nearly as many shots as points. He didnt care about winning it was all ego. The MJ show just wasted seasons for the wizards and set the franchise back.

[mehyaM24]

for the sake of comparison, at 18, jordan was playing second fiddle to james worthy at UNC.

lebron? winning ROTY and already a top 10 caliber player (#10th in MVP award shares) in the NBA.

just some food for thought

[Paul George 24]

leflop will not able to ball at 40

[Paul George 24]

46% sucks when you aren't drawing fouls or shooting 3's

MJ at that point was a shameless chucker taking nearly as many shots as points. He didnt care about winning it was all ego. The MJ show just wasted seasons for the wizards and set the franchise back.

wizrds are all srubs without jordan

[stalkerforlife]

you are wrong and it's common knowledge.

The rule changes were created in 2001, but only tested in the D-league and not instituted in the NBA until the 2004-2005 season.

This is common knowledge and a simple Google search will easily confirm this.

indeed, Lebron' numbers took a massive jump from his rookie year to his 2nd year that can't all be explained away by turning 19.

what else happened in the 2004-2005 season that might have affected his numbers.... hmmmm... can anyone think of anything??..

oh right... the nba instituted massive rule changes beginning in the 2004-2005 season designed to "open up the game".... maybe that had something to do with it.

Obliterated.

[stalkerforlife]

Except Lebron's increase was part of a LEAGUE-WIDE increase that was the largest in 30 years.

League-wide offensive rating increased from 102.9 in the 2003-2004 season (Lebron's rookie year), to 106.1 in 2004-2005 - this was the largest increase in 30 years!!!

The league-wide increase was due to the rule changes designed to "open up the game" as the NBA has stated many times - and Lebron's increase was a part of this league-wide increase.
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Damn. Damn. Damn.

Lebron would be EXPOSED without the rule change.

[3ball]

After turning age 40, Jordan averaged 23/7/4/1.5 stl/46% FG over the final 30 games of the season. Yeah...he sucked.

This is interesting; I did not know this... it makes sense though - i remember when Jordan first came back to the Wizards, he was still trying to drop 40 and 50 (and did), but he was inconsistent because he was trying to be a little more athletic than he really was at the time, and occasionally couldn't pull off some of the moves he was trying to do.

But then in the 2nd year, he had adjusted his style (what else is new) to play less athletically, and it suited him better - his numbers were better in many ways and he got more efficient... by the end of the year, he had really settled into this more consistent style, and he was playing hard because it was his last games.

also, 46% is GREAT when you aren't shooting 3's or getting to the line much - MJ shot 46% while shooting mostly the toughest shots in basketball - contested mid-range - a testament to his goat skill that he could have a 20 PER and average 20+ppg while taking mostly the toughest shots there are.

that's what i've already said about Jordan - he could get a lot of points IN ANY CAPACITY THAT WAS NECESSARY - so with his athleticism gone, all he had left was contested mid-range shots - the toughest shots..... No problem... still respectable with 20ppg and a 20 PER and an all-star.

Jordan's 40-year old presence led the Wizards to 18 more wins (37) than they had the year before when he wasn't playing (19)... yeah, he was worthless as a Wizard.

[aj1987]

Is OP retarded?! NVM. He obviously is. LeBron at 19/20 put up 27/7/7/2/1 on 55% TS. How many other 19/20 year old players have done that in the NBA?

Not saying that LeBron is better than MJ or anything, but to deny LeBron's greatness is just idiotic.

League-wide offensive rating increased from 102.9 in the 2003-2004 season (Lebron's rookie year), to 106.1 in 2004-2005 - this was the largest increase in 30 years!!!

WOW! 3 whole points in DRtg. That sure explains LeBron's 7 PPG increase.

Also, doesn't that mean that anything that Kobe had done (offense related) after the '04 season is pretty much overrated? So, Kobe is NOT even a top 10 player. According to you, he got carried to 3 rings and won another two in an extremely weak era (while being carried after legendary chokes).

[3ball]

no need to be offended... if you re-read the op, you'll see that i was only asking whether it was expected or unexpected that Jordan would be better at 40 than Lebron was at 18.

then question was brought up whether the rule changes in 2004-2005 helped explain part of the massive increase in Lebron's numbers in his 2nd season, like it did for everyone else and the entire league.

but no one is denying Lebron's greatness - he is great.

[aj1987]

no need to be offended... if you re-read the op, you'll see that i was only asking whether it was expected or unexpected that Jordan would be better at 40 than Lebron was at 18.

Yeah, a NBA player with 19 years of NBA level experience is better than a dude who just graduated from High School.

EDIT: For a single season, I would take rookie LeBron over '03 MJ in a heartbeat though. He might have the better basketball mind (hence my original statement), but rookie LeBron's athleticism and playmaking? Damn.

On a side note, 40 year old MJ >>>>>>> 3rd year Kobe.