Is it a coincidence? (Pau, Odom, Bynum)

[DMAVS41]

numbers dont mean much without context, what were they fighting for? gasol was 0-12 in playoffs games without kobe, thats 3 SWEEPS in a row, now you can add another one for 0-16, thats a far more telling number if you ask me...ok, mem was a bad team with pau as a whole, but not able to win 1 game?

also, that would be like me saying that phil jackson made Kobe. what kind of success in the playoffs has Kobe had without phil jackson coaching?

it's a terrible argument and isn't even relevant.

[Solefade]

Watching the games >>>>>> reading about them years later

Apparently you Laker fans didn't watch the games otherwise you wouldn't be discrediting Kobe's teammates.

That article is very informative, has good contextual information and facts.

[Mr. Jabbar]

also, that would be like me saying that phil jackson made Kobe. what kind of success in the playoffs has Kobe had without phil jackson coaching?

it's a terrible argument and isn't even relevant.

lol kobe has won many playoff games without phil

[TheMarkMadsen]

Apparently you Laker fans didn't watch the games otherwise you wouldn't be discrediting Kobe's teammates.

That article is very informative, has good contextual information and facts.

I watched the games, every single one. Bynum was an irrelavant as can be in 09. 10 wasn't that much better

Didn't average more than 25 mpg in either playoffs.

Odom was Odom, in consistent but at times an incredible asset who's well rounded game made up for some of the Lakers blatant weakness. However, he still posted marginal numbers in each playoff series.

People wanna talk about big men but most the time we had Gasol or Odom at the 5..

[DMAVS41]

lol kobe has won many playoff games without phil

so that is the barometer of success. how many playoff games you've won?

It is a non argument. Gasol could have joined the Spurs instead of the Lakers and won a ton. Odom...the same thing.

It was about finally being on a really good team.

Gasol and Odom had already shown what kind of players they were. The notion that Kobe "made them" is absurd....

You may not like it, but you don't just put up 21/10/3 by chance. You also don't just happen to lead average at best memphis squads to the playoffs 3 times either.

[VIP2000]

I watched the games, every single one. Bynum was an irrelavant as can be in 09. 10 wasn't that much better

Didn't average more than 25 mpg in either playoffs.

Odom was Odom, in consistent but at times an incredible asset who's well rounded game made up for some of the Lakers blatant weakness. However, he still posted marginal numbers in each playoff series.

People wanna talk about big men but most the time we had Gasol or Odom at the 5..

You don't think other superstars (CP3, Melo, Wade, LBJ, etc.) would have wanted a duo of 7-footers with post moves and a 6'10" point forward?

I don't think the '09 and '10 Lakers teams were stacked by any means, but they by far had the best frontcourt in the league. Dwight Howard in the '09 finals had trouble protecting the paint against one of them, let alone all 3.

[DMAVS41]

You don't think other superstars would have wanted a duo of 7-footers with post moves and a 6'10" point forward?

I don't think the '09 and '10 Lakers teams were stacked by any means, but they by far had the best frontcourt in the league. Dwight Howard in the '09 finals had trouble protecting the paint against one of them, let alone all 3.

The whole "stacked" thing depends on what context it is in.

The back to back Lakers were not historically stacked, but they were stacked in comparison to the rest of the league. Kobe was a top 3 player...and had the best supporting cast of all the best players in the league.

Very similar in many ways to the current Heat. Not historically stacked the way Bosh and Wade are currently playing. But they make up the best supporting cast in the league right now.

[Mr. Jabbar]

so that is the barometer of success. how many playoff games you've won?

It is a non argument. Gasol could have joined the Spurs instead of the Lakers and won a ton. Odom...the same thing.

It was about finally being on a really good team.

Gasol and Odom had already shown what kind of players they were. The notion that Kobe "made them" is absurd....

You may not like it, but you don't just put up 21/10/3 by chance. You also don't just happen to lead average at best memphis squads to the playoffs 3 times either.

look, gasol was not a bad player back in the day, he clearly lacked an under-pressure mentality though, you may not like it but 0-16 is not something you can just overlook. Anyway, this thread is to put kobes cast in those chips in perspective for some delusional guys, and I dont think you are one of them

[Solefade]

look, gasol was not a bad player back in the day, he clearly lacked an under-pressure mentality though, you may not like it but 0-16 is not something you can just overlook. Anyway, this thread is to put kobes cast in those chips in perspective for some delusional guys, and I dont think you are one of them

Saying that "Gasol was not a bad player" is so disrespectful to him. I'm not a Laker fan but he was so CRITICAL in those playoff runs in 09/10, I don't understand how you all can just brush off his impact in those years just so you can make a point that Kobe "did it with less". He was soft in '08 but he got over that hump in 09/10 and he got soft again (once he broke up with his girlfriend or whatever it was) and him being in the trade talks didn't help. But he was there when it mattered most.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Saying that "Gasol was not a bad player" is so disrespectful to him. I'm not a Laker fan but he was so CRITICAL in those playoff runs in 09/10, I don't understand how you all can just brush off his impact in those years just so you can make a point that Kobe "did it with less". He was soft in '08 but he got over that hump in 09/10 and he got soft again (once he broke up with his girlfriend or whatever it was) and him being in the trade talks didn't help. But he was there when it mattered most.

in the context of teams which won championships, kobe had average to below average help, thats all I'm saying,...and yes, gasol, was important.

[Cleverness]

Is it a coincidence that when players get old and/or injured, they don't perform as well?

No, it is not. Steve Nash won MVPs when he was in his prime and not old/injured. Dwight Howard took a team to the NBA Finals when he was not injured.

[STATUTORY]

Is it a coincidence that when players get old and/or injured, they don't perform as well?

No, it is not. Steve Nash won MVPs when he was in his prime and not old/injured. Dwight Howard took a team to the NBA Finals when he was not injured.

aging is not a valid excuse in Gasol's case

0-12 BEFORE Kobe, 0-4 AFTER Kobe

[Solefade]

I watched the games, every single one. Bynum was an irrelavant as can be in 09. 10 wasn't that much better

Didn't average more than 25 mpg in either playoffs.

Odom was Odom, in consistent but at times an incredible asset who's well rounded game made up for some of the Lakers blatant weakness. However, he still posted marginal numbers in each playoff series.

People wanna talk about big men but most the time we had Gasol or Odom at the 5..

Well shit, Bosh's impact doesn't show up in the numbers and at time he's inconsistent too, but he deserves all the credit for those little things he does for the team because someone has to. Bynum averaged around 15/8 in both of those championship seasons even with his limited minutes. You guys gotta be a little more objective about this, just saying.

[Solefade]

aging is not a valid excuse in Gasol's case

0-12 BEFORE Kobe, 0-4 AFTER Kobe

Who gives a shit what his record was before and after? We can all acknowledge that no team was going to win a chip with Gasol as the first option (and also Vancouver/Memphis was a shitty organization until recent) but the fact of the matter was he did some heavy lifting in those championship years. Although his play has dramatically declined since 09/10, he's still probably considered one of the most skilled big men today.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Well shit, Bosh's impact doesn't show up in the numbers and at time he's inconsistent too, but he deserves all the credit for those little things he does for the team because someone has to. Bynum averaged around 15/8 in both of those championship seasons even with his limited minutes. You guys gotta be a little more objective about this, just saying.

Please post Andrew Bynums playoff stats for those 2 championship runs