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Old 04-21-2015, 08:00 PM   #16
Real14
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Default Re: Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

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Originally Posted by 24-Inch_Chrome


All-time? No.
Hakeem is top 10 but Isiah's not?? bullshit!
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

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Originally Posted by TheMarkMadsen

Led his team to wins over Magic, Jordan and Bird in significant series

Has the stats.. four straight years of 20/4/10 including a 21/5/14/2 season.. AND the playoff success

almost always raised his game in the playoffs, had possibly the most gutsy finals performance of all time in 88' for game 6. Changed his game and sacrificed stats for W's in 89 & 90 when the Pistons adopted a slower more methodical offense which didn't allow for Isiah to just run free

For me, I have Thomas over Stockton, and is a lot closer to Oscar than people think

Top 4 PG's all time would have to include Magic, Stockton, Oscar and Isiah IMO but I hardly hear this guy talked about anymore..

See, that's what I don't get - Isiah DEFEATED a prime Larry, prime Magic, and prime Jordan.

3 of the top 5 players of all time.. Oh, and Kareem too.. 4 of the 5 top players of all time.

But to figure out why Isiah is underrated, you have to consider how the game of basketball actually works - a small point guard has never won an NBA championship while dominating his team's distribution of offensive win share - basically, a small point guard can't win a championship by undertaking too much of the playmaking duties for his team: multiple playmaker teams (isiah's pistons, today's spurs) > 1-playmaker teams (CP3 and Nash's teams).

So while CP3 and Nash are stat-padding their way to 2nd round exits, Isiah was making sure his team-leading production fit into a true team concept, where his teammates retained sufficient playmaking responsibility for the team to maximize it's effectiveness against the better playoff competition.

While CP3 and Nash have both historically employed losing styles, Nash wasn't as good as CP3, so his stats declined in the playoffs, while CP3's don't fall much.. In Nash's case, just look at his WS/48 stats (WS/48 measures win shares, or how much a player contributes to his team's wins).. Nash's regular season WS/48 was 0.164, but it declined almost 20% to 0.133 in playoffs - this means a 62-win Phoenix team is more like a 50-win team in the playoffs..

Otoh, Isiah's WS/48 increased considerably in the playoffs - it increased 35% from 0.109 in regular season to 0.143 in the playoffs (higher than Nash's playoff WS/48).

It shows how optimal Isiah's game was at the point guard position that in the playoffs, his team went up to that higher level specifically by coalescing around Isiah's skill, and getting more out of him.
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Last edited by 3ball : 04-21-2015 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

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Originally Posted by Real14
Hakeem is top 10 but Isiah's not?? bullshit!

If you want to be taken seriously this is no way to do so.
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:01 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

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Originally Posted by Real14
Hakeem is top 10 but Isiah's not?? bullshit!

I guess I can answer my own question for you: No.
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:01 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

I don't think Isiah is underrated at all! He's widely considered the GOAT small guard. He's also widely considered the 3rd GOAT PG. In terms of mainstream appeal, Isiah was among the top 5-7 stars in the league in the Golden Era. And to top it off he won back to back rings. So he had mainstream appeal, was fun as hell to watch, and won rings.

What hurts Isiah is the Bad Boys Pistons persona and his controversial remarks. It cost him his rightful place on the Dream Team. The team could have carried three point guards with Isiah, Stockton, and Magic. Many of the future US teams had three PG's anyway. Isiah would have become one of the elite guys to have an NBA title, NCAA title, and Olympic Gold Medal.

Last edited by bizil : 04-21-2015 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:02 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

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Originally Posted by 24-Inch_Chrome
If you want to be taken seriously this is no way to do so.
Who's your top 10?
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:03 PM   #22
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Default Re: Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

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Originally Posted by bizil
I don't think Isiah is underrated at all! He's widely considered the GOAT small guard. He's also widely considered the 3rd GOAT PG. In terms of mainstream appeal, Isiah was among the top 5-7 stars in the league. And to top it off he won back to back rings. So he had mainstream appeal, was fun as hell to watch, and won rings.

What hurts Isiah is the Bad Boys Pistons persona and his controversial remarks. It cost him his rightful place on the Dream Team. The team could have carried three point guards with Isiah, Stockton, and Magic. Many of the future US teams had three PG's anyway. Isiah would have become one of the elite guys to have an NBA title, NCAA title, and Olympic Gold Medal.
That's why he's tha most underrated. People hated on tha best small man for years
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:03 PM   #23
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Default Re: Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

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Originally Posted by Real14
Who's your top 10?

All-time? Pretty standard list:

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Duncan
6. Magic
7. Shaq
8. Bird
9. Hakeem
10. LeBron

The 6 and 7 spots flip fairly frequently.
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:04 PM   #24
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Default Re: Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

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Originally Posted by Smoke117
I guess I can answer my own question for you: No.
Who's your top 10?
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:05 PM   #25
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Default Re: Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

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Originally Posted by 24-Inch_Chrome
All-time? Pretty standard list:

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Duncan
6. Magic
7. Shaq
8. Bird
9. Hakeem
10. LeBron


The 6 and 7 spots flip fairly frequently.

but Isiah don't deserve to be on there? ........
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:23 PM   #26
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Default Re: Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

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Originally Posted by 24-Inch_Chrome
Isiah's ankle game is, to me, the most impressive display from a player not at 100% in league history. I'll take it over Jordan's flu game every time.

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Old 04-21-2015, 08:27 PM   #27
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Default Re: Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

I was gonna respond thinking it was Isaiah Thomas.

Dude's underrated cause he spanked Jordan's ass too many times. League f*cked him out of a title when Magic tripped him as well.
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:28 PM   #28
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Default Re: Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

Hes overrated lucky he played on one of the most stacked and GOAT defenses. Its arguably he wasnt even the best Piston during their best days

PGs that were better

Magic
Oscar
CP3
Stockton
Kidd
Payton

Then Zeke or KJ........Peak Penny and Baron were better too.
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:29 PM   #29
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Default Re: Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

The phantom foul on Laimbeer is the only reason Isiah didn't get a three-peat.
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:31 PM   #30
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Default Re: Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

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Originally Posted by Hamtaro CP3KDKG
Hes overrated lucky he played on one of the most stacked and GOAT defenses. Its arguably he wasnt even the best Piston during their best days

PGs that were better

Magic
Oscar
CP3
Stockton
Kidd
Payton


Then Zeke or KJ........Peak Penny and Baron were better too.



We're talking greatness here, there's a lot more to that than how you judge their respective skill levels. Isiah was easily greater than all of the bold names, that's without getting into an argument about skill level.
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