Lebron's teams are always middle to near-last in assists

[3ball]

The reality is that MJ's highly-assisted, off-ball game CREATES assists for teammates (that's what "highly assisted" means), while Lebron's ball-dominant, low-assisted style REDUCES teammates' opportunity to assist and playmake - tell me how I'm wrong...

Think about how many assists the GOAT scorer created for his team as an off-ball player - he was like a gold mine for teammates to rack up assists..

That's part of the reason why the Bulls average assist ranking during MJ's career was 8th, as opposed to Lebron's 13th.. The 8th ranking is unadjusted for pace - so it's actually lower, since the Bulls were ALWAYS near-last in pace.

[iamgine]

Lebron's teams aren't consistently near the top, which would destroy my point of his assist-lowering effect on the team.

Why would his team not near the top means he have an assist lowering effect?

What about when his team was near the top?

[HurricaneKid]

for lebron's entire career, his teams are middle to near-last in assists.

Pace-Adjusted Assist Rankings for all of Lebron's Teams:


2004: 11th
2005: 6th
2006: 24th
2007: 17th
2008: 25th
2009: 12th
2010: 4th
2011: 22nd
2012: 20th
2013: 3rd
2014: 4th
2015: 8th


Again, when you point out the exception to the norm, you only prove the existence of the norm and make MY point, not the one you were trying to make.

Lebron's teams have typically been in the middle to near-last in assists (not even in top 10 most seasons).. Deal with it.
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So for his career they have avg somewhere between 12 and 13. And over the last three years they have avg 5th.

I know everyone always ethers 3Ball in these cockamamie threads. But its unusual to see 3Ball do it himself. I guess he was feeling left out.

[3ball]

Why would his team not near the top means he have an assist lowering effect?

Again, the assist totals don't even relate to the Lebron assist-lowering argument - the argument itself is an intuitive one based on simple logic: frontcourt players never have low assisted rates like Lebron, so Lebron's presence in the frontcourt lowers his teammates capacity to get assists.. That's the argument, nothing else.. Lebron's teams could be dead last in assists, and it still wouldn't make my argument.

The only purpose of the assist stats is to potentially DISPROVE my argument, by showing that Lebron's teams are consistently good assist teams... But his teams are average (13th) and not consistently good.. So my point is not disproved, and instead still stands.

[iamgine]

So my point is not disproved, and instead still stands.

Well...If you say so...its a free country.

[3ball]

So for his career they have avg somewhere between 12 and 13. And over the last three years they have avg 5th.

I know everyone always ethers 3Ball in these cockamamie threads. But its unusual to see 3Ball do it himself. I guess he was feeling left out.

I'm happy with the average ranking of 13th - it's in line with my point.

Lebron's teams have not historically been good passing teams - 13th is not good.

Therefore my point stands: frontcourt players never have low assisted rates like Lebron, so Lebron's presence in the frontcourt lowers his teammates capacity to GET assists.. Are you capable of understanding that?

Btw, the only reason this is a valid point is because Lebron plays in the frontcourt.. If he played point guard, he would be EXPECTED to have a low-assisted rate.. But not only does Lebron play in the normally high-assisted frontcourt, but he's literally the only frontcourt player EVER to be ball-dominant and have a low-assisted rate.. So his teams are the only ones in history with this assist-lowering syndrome of Lebron's ball-dominant forward play.

[3ball]

Well...If you say so...its a free country.

Look bruh, i'm on here showing that Lebron is a ball-dominant, low-assisted player that plays a normally high assisted position, which therefore lowers his teammates capacity to get assists.

This is a FACT.. It's not refutable.

So you can come on here and argue semantics about the definition of "always", but the point remains.. you haven't said one thing to refute my point.. all you've wanted to talk about is whether his team has "always" had a bad ranking, and whether 13th is considered "average" or "above average".. who cares.. stick to the point.. :eyeroll

[iamgine]

you haven't said one thing to refute my point..

I didn't think i need to since it's been refuted repeatedly since 2nd post.

[3ball]

I didn't think i need to since it's been refuted repeatedly since 2nd post.

The 2nd post didn't argue my point - it argued semantics about the meaning of "always".

My point is that Lebron is a low-assisted player that plays a normally high assisted position, which therefore lowers his teammates capacity to assist him and therefore their capacity to assist.

Show me where this was refuted.. It's kind of hard to when it's fact.. If teammates can't assist the leading scorer on their team as often because the leading scorer is always doing it by himself, then that lowers their assist capacity... Otoh, if the team's leading scorer is an off-ball, highly assisted player, than teammates have a gold mine to rack up assists, playmake and stay engaged.
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[TylerOO]

They are also always in the finals.

[Megabox!]

3ball is getting his shit pushed in

[Bandito]

Lehog effect.

[kamil]

Pace-Adjusted Assist Rankings for all of Lebron's Teams:


2004: 11th
2005: 6th
2006: 24th
2007: 17th
2008: 25th
2009: 12th
2010: 4th
2011: 22nd
2012: 20th
2013: 3rd
2014: 4th
2015: 8th

Again, when you point out the exception to the norm, you only prove the existence of the norm and make MY point, not the one you were trying to make.

Lebron's teams have typically been in the middle to near-last in assists (not even in top 10 most seasons).. Deal with it.
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that average of that is 13.

So, no, LeBrons* team don't rank low.

[LeBird]

Is this dumbass still trying to prove the existence of off-ball assists?

[iamgine]

My point is that Lebron is a low-assisted player that plays a normally high assisted position, which therefore lowers his teammates capacity to assist him and therefore their capacity to assist.
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That's your point? It's kind of a "so what" point.

It's like saying Shaq can only play in the post, so it lowers his teammates capacity to cut.