Are the 2009 Lakers the weakest champions in NBA history?

[ProfessorMurder]

If detractors want to say things like "but regular season seaon games don't always mean playoff wins!" that's cool, but they're still just speculating. Whereas I'm just posting what actually happened.

Well you just used the same argument again... But you're speculating as much as the guys you've been fighting with.

Numbers don't mean everything.

You love the Lakers and think they're the best, but you're just spouting these same 4 facts that don't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Plus you can't predict the future of sporting events anyway.

[Disaprine]

One has to wonder if Kevin Garnett was available during the post season, the Boston Celtics would have undoubtedly put them to the sword in the finals.

Or if Orlando Magic had not have had their most potent creative force operating at 60% of his capacity, playing in very limited minutes, Magic would have run riot in the NBA finals.

Or if the officials had not have been influenced to guide the Lakers past the Nuggets, the Denver Nuggets would have advanced from the conference finals instead of the Lakers.

Or if the foul tactics deployed by Lakers against Houston in their series had been punished accordingly, Lakers wouldn't have gone through against a depleated Houston missing their back up centre and first choice point guard.

Thoughts?

did you ever hear of the 2006 miami heat

[chitownsfinest]

I am not sayin 95 Rockets>09 Lakers in my argument but I am saying the series can go either way because Rockets were a really unpredictable team. I would easily rank this yrs lakers over the 06 Heat, 03 Spurs , 94 Rockers, and the 79 Sonics.

[jmill]

Using seasonal records is not a great way to speculate because playoffs is a whole another season and various circumstances can happen in the playoffs. Fact: Rockets beat 4 straight 50 win teams in the playoffs without having homecourt either round. Another fact: Hakeem played out of the world in the playoffs: 33/10/5 on 53% shooting. Robert Horry stepped his game up in the playoffs and the Smith/Cassell duo scored 21 ppg together. Also, the Lakers strategy of hounding Hakeem in the paint like they did to Dwight would not work because Hakeem had the post moves and footork to evade defenses and get around them. I was watching an old Rockets/Jazz tape from the 94 playoffs and Hakeem was practically fronted the entire game but still scored 40 points. Hakeem is also a great passer and the Rockets shooters were deadly in those playoffs.

Fact: I already read your first post stating that the Rockets beat 4 50 win teams without homecourt, and I'm aware Hakeem averaged 33/10. This does not change my opnion that it's reasonable to think a 65 win Laker team with a +7.4 PD could compete against a 47 win Rocket team with a PD of +2.4.

[chitownsfinest]

Fact: I already read your first post stating that the Rockets beat 4 50 win teams without homecourt, and I'm aware Hakeem averaged 33/10. This does not change my opnion that it's reasonable to think a 65 win Laker team with a +7.4 PD could compete against a 47 win Rocket team with a PD of +2.4.

Where did I say that the 09 Lakers would get crushed? The series can go either way based on circumstances. I am just saying it is not wise to base the 95 Rockets off their seasonal record.

[craiye]

I was a little offended when I first heard someone wonder aloud whether or not the 2004 Detroit Pistons were the weakest champions ever. Alas, I came to discover that this thread pops up after every single championship round.

QFT

These dumb*** threads come up every year.

I'm not Laker fan, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the talent this team has. When they're focused and clicking they play beautiful basketball and not many can beat them like that.

I don't think you can be a weak team and win the championship, it doesn't add up. For that reason, it's not really relevant how "weak" one championship team is compared to another. Fact is, they're the champs.

[soadrules]

Other than Hakeem and Drexler (who was past his prime), the Rockets had a bunch of role players. I am very confident the Lakers would have won in a 7 game series.

Not just 'role playes'. Very good players. Horry in his 'statistical' [ Ithink] prime, very good players. Not superstars, or even stars, but still great.

What's the difference between the Lakers with Kobe and Pau and a bunch of 'role players'?

[Disaprine]

One has to wonder if Kevin Garnett was available during the post season, the Boston Celtics would have undoubtedly put them to the sword in the finals.

Or if Orlando Magic had not have had their most potent creative force operating at 60% of his capacity, playing in very limited minutes, Magic would have run riot in the NBA finals.

Or if the officials had not have been influenced to guide the Lakers past the Nuggets, the Denver Nuggets would have advanced from the conference finals instead of the Lakers.

Or if the foul tactics deployed by Lakers against Houston in their series had been punished accordingly, Lakers wouldn't have gone through against a depleated Houston missing their back up centre and first choice point guard.

Thoughts?

[jmill]

Well you just used the same argument again... But you're speculating as much as the guys you've been fighting with.

Numbers don't mean everything.

You love the Lakers and think they're the best, but you're just spouting these same 4 facts that don't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Plus you can't predict the future of sporting events anyway.

In the games the Lakers played against the C's/Rockets/Cavs/Nuggets when those teams were healthy, the Lakers had a winning record against all those teams.

This is not speculating. It's fact. So when someone makes an OP stating implying the Lakers are the weakest championship team ever I will gladly point out that the Lakers did well in the games that were played this year against said teams.

And the best part is, let's say I am speculating, in that I think the Lakers would beat those teams when healthy.

I would base my opinion on the only evidence we have, that being the games that were played. The Lakers went 17-4 against the C's/Cavs/Nuggets/Rockets when both teams were healthy this year. So from that I think the Lakers would have a good shot at being successful against those teams.

The other side just ignores those games and says " LOL regular season doesn't matter" or " w/e my team just didn't play well that night". They make excuses, ignore the information at hand, and just decide that their team will win because they say so.

But sure, I'm the one speculating.

[jmill]

Also, you don't have to think LA would beat those teams, that's not what annoys me, I'm not even sure myself how they would have done in the finals against Boston, aside from being confident it'd be a very competitive and different series.

But when people say things like weakest championship team ever or "OMG C's hands down" because of injuries to certain teams it looks pretty foolish, especially once you take into consideration that the Lakers did very well against those teams when they were healthy this year.

[flipogb]

has there ever been a season where no playoff team has an important player injured ? , im sure there hasn't so the injury excuses are pointless

[soadrules]

Also, you don't have to think LA would beat those teams, that's not what annoys me, I'm not even sure myself how they would have done in the finals against Boston, aside from being confident it'd be a very competitive and different series.

But when people say things like weakest championship team ever or "OMG C's hands down" because of injuries to certain teams it looks pretty foolish, especially once you take into consideration that the Lakers did very well against those teams when they were healthy this year.

Yeah, that's true. They aren't a bad team at all. They ravaged almost every single team in the league even when they were injured. Injury is part of basketball. It's not like it's a 'new addition' to the league this year, or in the past decade. Many many championship teams have gone through teams that had injured stars...that's just what happens and you have to move on.

[Mrofir]

I am not sayin 95 Rockets>09 Lakers in my argument but I am saying the series can go either way because Rockets were a really unpredictable team. I would easily rank this yrs lakers over the 06 Heat, 03 Spurs , 94 Rockers, and the 79 Sonics.

I think this Lakers team ranks above the 06 Heat easily, which would make my answer to the OP no.. I also think the Lakers post-ring are a better team than they were prior to winning it all. I think if the playoffs started again today, the Lakers would run through with better results because of the experience and psychological edge. They were a mentally fragile team before they figured it out against Orlando and turned the corner. I always thought if a team with less talent got in LA's heads they could turn the series and pull an upset, and the Rockets almost did it, but they were just too far behind in the talent dept.

chitown, I'm interested in how you explain that 03 Spurs pick. I can easily argue that the 03 Lakers were better than this year's version, and they lost to the 03 Spurs. Hm.

And stop hating on the Rockets. It's too bad we didn't get a chance to see Jordan duel it out with those Rockets teams, because that could have been interesting. Those Rockets teams beat stacked Phoenix teams both years, and Hakeem was perhaps the best center of all time for those 2 years.

Lakers have a decent chance of repeating next year, and I think this championship team could compete well with most other winning teams. At best they are about an average champion, and at worst they might be in the 20-25th percentile among champions, but I don't think they are at all in the mix for weakest champion ever. The 06 Heat own that title in my book.

[kobesabi]

They been called softies but who cares, they got the job done instead of gone fishing. They got the ring. That's all it matter.

[chitownsfinest]

I think this Lakers team ranks above the 06 Heat easily, which would make my answer to the OP no.. I also think the Lakers post-ring are a better team than they were prior to winning it all. I think if the playoffs started again today, the Lakers would run through with better results because of the experience and psychological edge. They were a mentally fragile team before they figured it out against Orlando and turned the corner. I always thought if a team with less talent got in LA's heads they could turn the series and pull an upset, and the Rockets almost did it, but they were just too far behind in the talent dept.

chitown, I'm interested in how you explain that 03 Spurs pick. I can easily argue that the 03 Lakers were better than this year's version, and they lost to the 03 Spurs. Hm.

And stop hating on the Rockets. It's too bad we didn't get a chance to see Jordan duel it out with those Rockets teams, because that could have been interesting. Those Rockets teams beat stacked Phoenix teams both years, and Hakeem was perhaps the best center of all time for those 2 years.

Lakers have a decent chance of repeating next year, and I think this championship team could compete well with most other winning teams. At best they are about an average champion, and at worst they might be in the 20-25th percentile among champions, but I don't think they are at all in the mix for weakest champion ever. The 06 Heat own that title in my book.

03 Spurs was Tim Duncan and a collection of wash ups and inexperienced players. Tony Parker was still raw, Robinson was in his last season and playing a limited role, Ginobili was a rookie and still learning, Bowen was at his best defensively, and Stepehen Jackson was young and limited offensively. Compare that to Kobe Bryant in his peak, Pau Gasol playing at an all star level, Lamar Odom better then Stephen Jackson at that point and better then any player on that Spurs team not named Duncan, Trevor Ariza shooting lights out, and Andruw Bynum and this Lakers team is better then that 03 Spurs team. Kobe destroyed Bowen in last season's playofs and would have no problem against that version's Bowen either. Laker have the front court advantage as well. The 03 Lakers are not better then this yrs Lakers team as Shaq was out of shape that season and not playing well compared to his standards, Kobe was too much of a ball hog, and the role players they had were not as productive as they once were. The 00-02 Lakers teams were better but the 03 Lakers team was running on fumes.