How Did Hand-check Era = Tougher D and Higher FG%??..

[Christofire]

A good much of you people believe it was tougher, even the statheads, but the numbers don't really support it.

I just want someone to explain to me how the Illegal defense Hand-check Era made scoring harder, but yet players had higher FG%s and point totals.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

If I remember correctly the answer is

1. "Stats lie"
2. "Players lost fundamentals"
3. "Weakened shot selection"

Without any statistical evidence to support anything

[Fatal9]

Real handchecking was eliminated in 1980 (check rules history). Wish my old computer hadn't gone dead, had lots of clips of handcheck fouls being called in the early 90s and the commentators (like Hubie Brown) saying word for word: "you can't handcheck in this league, that went out in 1980". Does it mean you couldn't actually handcheck? No, but the real handcheck (when you could literally have an affect on the player's movement) was taken out years ago, you could get away with it then just like you can get away with it now though. Anyone who watches any ball right now should know that handchecking is not regulated that tightly at all, especially in the playoffs these last couple of years (I do remember them making a point about it when the rule change first happened though).

Team defenses now > Back then, especially with the illegal defense rules restricting them (there's a reason the best defensive teams of the era tried to play and get away with a lot of illegal D, when will people understand TEAM DEFENSE is the most important thing in assessing quality of defense)
Average athlete now > Back then (watching a typical game, there is a visible difference in lateral quickness/ability to cover floor/recover+contest shots etc etc, the court is and feels a lot smaller now that's why you get a lot of talk of people wanting NBA to expand the sidelines)

Were defenses more physical as a whole in the 80s/early 90s? Yes, but that doesn't necessarily make them better. If handchecking is everything then the 70s are the GOAT defensive era and we need to start rounding down the stats of the 80s/90s players.

Another thing people complain about is stars getting fouls on offensive flops (ticky tack fouls). That has always been the case. Offensive floppers get free throws, it's that simple. That's a reason why Reggie Miller in '90 and '91 averaged more free throws than MJ did in '92 and '93 (not to mention MJ taking way more shots than him too). You rip through defenders arms, kick out your legs, jump into players, you're going to get the call. You avoid defenders in the air like a D-Rose or MJ (at times)? You're not getting the call. It's just a shame that there's a lot more of that in the game now.

Westbrook and Rose are two of the quickest players I've ever seen, they should be basically unstoppable due to no handchecking/no touch rules right (especially with respectable mid-range Js behind them)? But their scoring efficiency is quite mediocre, what gives?

[-23-]

Real handchecking was eliminated in 1980 (check rules history). Wish my old computer hadn't gone dead, had lots of clips of handcheck fouls being called in the early 90s and the commentators (like Hubie Brown) saying word for word: "you can't handcheck in this league, that went out in 1980". Does it mean you couldn't actually handcheck? No, but the real handcheck (when you could literally have an affect on the player's movement) was taken out years ago, you could get away with it then just like you can get away with it now though. Anyone who watches any ball right now should know that handchecking is not regulated that tightly at all, especially in the playoffs these last couple of years (I do remember them making a point about it when the rule change first happened though).

Team defenses now > Back then, especially with the illegal defense rules restricting them (there's a reason the best defensive teams of the era tried to play and get away with a lot of illegal D, when will people understand TEAM DEFENSE is the most important thing in assessing quality of defense)
Average athlete now > Back then (watching a typical game, there is a visible difference in lateral quickness/ability to cover floor/recover+contest shots etc etc, the court is and feels a lot smaller now that's why you get a lot of talk of people wanting NBA to expand the sidelines)

Were defenses more physical as a whole in the 80s/early 90s? Yes, but that doesn't necessarily make them better. If handchecking is everything then the 70s are the GOAT defensive era and we need to start rounding down the stats of the 80s/90s players.

Another thing people complain about is stars getting fouls on offensive flops (ticky tack fouls). That has always been the case. Offensive floppers get free throws, it's that simple. That's a reason why Reggie Miller in '90 and '91 averaged more free throws than MJ did in '92 and '93 (not to mention MJ taking way more shots than him too). You rip through defenders arms, kick out your legs, jump into players, you're going to get the call. You avoid defenders in the air like a D-Rose or MJ (at times)? You're not getting the call. It's just a shame that there's a lot more of that in the game now.

Westbrook and Rose are two of the quickest players I've ever seen, they should be basically unstoppable due to no handchecking/no touch rules right (especially with respectable mid-range Js behind them)? But their scoring efficiency is quite mediocre, what gives?

Their scoring efficiency suck because they take questionable shots, and lack the proper game fundamentals.

[Teanett]

next to no post play leads to chucking.
no hand-check has every wing player thinking to be like mike or a.i.
how many big man are amongst the scoring leaders now?
the ones that are (dirk+durant, even amare) are jump shooters.

[Christofire]

Their scoring efficiency suck because they take questionable shots, and lack the proper game fundamentals.

yeah i agree, because rookie-89 jordan was so fundamentally sound as he scored to the tune of 53% and such...

[Christofire]

next to no post play leads to chucking.
no hand-check has every wing player thinking to be like mike or a.i.
how many big man are amongst the scoring leaders now?
the ones that are (dirk+durant, even amare) are jump shooters.

so it was easier to get to the paint back then?

[SinJackal]

FG% was higher because they took less threes. Shooting more threes lowers FG%, since league average for threes is usually between 33-35%.

eFG% from like 2004-2009 was as high or higher than it's ever been.

Another reason FG% was higher was because it was easier to get the ball into the post to big men. Example: DRob, Hakeem, Shaq. . .those guys all shot 50%+ and scored 25-30 PPG.

Guards weren't blowing up the league, bigs were.

[XxSMSxX]

FG% was higher because they took less threes. Shooting more threes lowers FG%, since league average for threes is usually between 33-35%.

eFG% from like 2004-2009 was as high or higher than it's ever been.

This and the much better post players pre no handcheck era increased FG%

[Crown&Coke]

Real handchecking was eliminated in 1980 (check rules history). Wish my old computer hadn't gone dead, had lots of clips of handcheck fouls being called in the early 90s and the commentators (like Hubie Brown) saying word for word: "you can't handcheck in this league, that went out in 1980". Does it mean you couldn't actually handcheck? No, but the real handcheck (when you could literally have an affect on the player's movement) was taken out years ago, you could get away with it then just like you can get away with it now though. Anyone who watches any ball right now should know that handchecking is not regulated that tightly at all, especially in the playoffs these last couple of years (I do remember them making a point about it when the rule change first happened though).

Team defenses now > Back then, especially with the illegal defense rules restricting them (there's a reason the best defensive teams of the era tried to play and get away with a lot of illegal D, when will people understand TEAM DEFENSE is the most important thing in assessing quality of defense)
Average athlete now > Back then (watching a typical game, there is a visible difference in lateral quickness/ability to cover floor/recover+contest shots etc etc, the court is and feels a lot smaller now that's why you get a lot of talk of people wanting NBA to expand the sidelines)

Were defenses more physical as a whole in the 80s/early 90s? Yes, but that doesn't necessarily make them better. If handchecking is everything then the 70s are the GOAT defensive era and we need to start rounding down the stats of the 80s/90s players.

Another thing people complain about is stars getting fouls on offensive flops (ticky tack fouls). That has always been the case. Offensive floppers get free throws, it's that simple. That's a reason why Reggie Miller in '90 and '91 averaged more free throws than MJ did in '92 and '93 (not to mention MJ taking way more shots than him too). You rip through defenders arms, kick out your legs, jump into players, you're going to get the call. You avoid defenders in the air like a D-Rose or MJ (at times)? You're not getting the call. It's just a shame that there's a lot more of that in the game now.

Westbrook and Rose are two of the quickest players I've ever seen, they should be basically unstoppable due to no handchecking/no touch rules right (especially with respectable mid-range Js behind them)? But their scoring efficiency is quite mediocre, what gives?

wholey macrel, repped

The Jordan rules were basically a zone defense with a defender shading Jordans side (DO NOT LET HIM GET THE BALL IN THE MIDDLE because then you can't shade effecively), and hit him everytime, hard

[Christofire]

FG% was higher because they took less threes. Shooting more threes lowers FG%, since league average for threes is usually between 33-35%.

eFG% from like 2004-2009 was as high or higher than it's ever been.

Another reason FG% was higher was because it was easier to get the ball into the post to big men. Example: DRob, Hakeem, Shaq. . .those guys all shot 50%+ and scored 25-30 PPG.

Guards weren't blowing up the league, bigs were.

so the only reason jordan has a higher FG% than Kobe is because he shot significantly less 3s?

[XxSMSxX]

so the only reason jordan has a higher FG% than Kobe is because he shot significantly less 3s?

And was also infinitely better at picking his shots

[Teanett]

so it was easier to get to the paint back then?

harder. that's why they passed it to the post and start the offense there.
today you'll see players looking to drive, defenses have to rotate, pass goes out and chuck away...

[Christofire]

And was also infinitely better at picking his shots

thats says alot about Kobe since there is only a 4% difference in their career Fg% dont you think?

[Christofire]

harder. that's why they passed it to the post and start the offense there.
today you'll see players looking to drive, defenses have to rotate, pass goes out and chuck away...

sure it was?...i guess that's why the implemented zones to steer the league away from all the isolation that was going on?