Greatest and Best Point Guards Ever: Year-by-Year Analysis

[nathanjizzle]

explain how you think chris paul was better than d rose in 2011. and dont say "rose isnt a true pg"

[ArbitraryWater]

Paul wasn't the best PG in 2012 and 2013... that's just going with the general opinion and reputation to avoid any questions...
Especially Parker in 2013

[ArbitraryWater]

explain how you think chris paul was better than d rose in 2011. and dont say "rose isnt a true pg"

Paul showed a lot of his greatness in the playoffs... played as perfect as a PG could and had 2 masterful games to beat the Lakers virtually by himself.

33/7/14 on 61% with elite D in stunning Game 1 Win @ LA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVosM5foJxs

27/13/15 on 50% with elite D in Game 4 Win to tie the series

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xWqdhAumXI

[Pointguard]

explain how you think chris paul was better than d rose in 2011. and dont say "rose isnt a true pg"

It has to be peer pressure of these boards. Paul still doesn't know how to control the pace of a game til this day. He over controls the game and alienates should be superstars on his team. We all didn't see how his absence got Blake back to his superstar ways after being hidden for two and a half years. His leadership is crap. He panics and, unfortunately, usually he always looks better than his team. OP has him as the best PG for six years without his teams doing much at all. What maybe one run where his team overachieved. And because he looked healthier he was better than the MVP? Really?

Paul definitely wasn't healthy enough to play hard every game til the end like Rose. Flip 20 games in the fourth quarter. Didn't take games off or wonder what's he doing? Sorry, healthier doesn't make you a better point guard.

What does Westbrook have to do? Totally destroy CP in a playoff series for people to see the distance between them. When Westbrook wanted to score he just did a layup. No moves, fakes or anything. CP3 wasn't an obstacle. You have to let your obvious favoritism go sometimes. CP4 has a lot of great PG qualities, maybe as many as any outside of Magic. But he clearly wasn't the best PG in those years.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I agree Tiny's stats are a bit inflated. There is no doubt. But which year in particular do you disagree with? I had him as the best PG in the NBA in 1973 and 1976. 76 was the year he led the league in points and assists. Even if you move past the stats, you will have to admit Tiny had the exceptional ability to score and pass. He was easily ahead of Frazier in both of those skills, which are the two most important for a PG to have. The ball domination got him a lot of assists, but he also did have inherent playmaking ability. He showed that later in his career as well in Boston being a primary playmaker averaging over 8apg multiple seasons without dominating the ball. He was also very tough to stop from scoring. He could hit the mid-range jumpshot but really excelled at getting to the hoop and averaged nearly 10 FT attempts per game. I still think it's rather close between him and Frazier that season, but what Archibald's advantages in scoring and playmaking while playing 46mpg were too much to overcome. Walt Frazier was my pick for PG of the year in 1973 though.

Much of his prime he was injured but 1973 he played 80 games. In 1976 he was also able to stay relatively healthy, and with Frazier falling off a bit he was my pick again for best PG.

Yea, he was playing for losing teams and doing what he wanted too, still very impressive nontheless. Looking at what the competition was doing, in those years, you're probably right about the rankings. 73 was the year he led the league in points and assists (not 76) but he didn't even make the post-season, for example, while Frazier had a great playoff run and was champion...
I don't know about the passing-game between him and Frazier, Tiny was a dude that overhandle the ball a lot, while Clyde played primarly in a team-first system where the ball was always moving and everybody got their touches, as far as pure passing I'd call it wash probably. As far as scoring, Tiny had the handles and was quick like crazy, great penatrator/finisher and before injuries taking the lift out of his jumpshot he could kill teams with shooting... He was sorta like AI of the 70s.
Yea Archibald was still a solid asset in his Boston days, despite being a shell of his former-self still managed to do it even after one ruptured achilles and a tore one. Even then he was still overhandling a lot though.





I agree along with some years in the 60s. But as I mentioned in the 3rd paragraph of my OP, this thread is only for PGs (career position general consensus). Thus, each year was picked amongst the best PGs rather than best player who played PG. Nonetheless, I gave Jerry West and other players who played PG but were generally considered another position acknowledgement in the Best Season section with the "Actual PG of the Year" recognition.

Oh, ok.


Once again you are spot-on that Dennis Johnson was the SG in Seattle while Gus was more of the PG. But again, DJ is still considered a PG for his career and thus is eligible to become the best PG in every year in this thread. I did give Gus Williams the 1979 "Actual" PG of the year recognition because even though DJ may have had a better overall season (winning Finals MVP), it was Gus Williams who actually played PG for the Sonics.


To me Gus Williams was an underrated player. He was always a good scorer, improved his passing ability as time went on to become strong there, and was an underrated defender. He also stepped up his game come playoff time through the course of his career. I had him Top 3 PG in 1979, in 1981 he did not play at all, and I also had him as a Top 3 PG from 1982-1984. He was a stud in that stretch. Taking that season off actually may have helped him as he came back as a stronger passer than ever before surpassing DJ and Michardson for me (in 1980 I gave DJ and MRR the edge, after that it was all Gus).

I don't know if I'd consider DJ a PG for his career, he only became a full-time PG and playing more as one since 1985 or so. He spent his early prime as a SG, then at his peak was like a combo guard but still more of a SG.
Yea Gus is very overlooked, like I've said he's probably the greatest PG of the 80s, overall, after Magic and Zeke. He was really fast and could score in different ways, master with the floaters, really good scorer, also a nice passer, good at playing the passing lanes on defense. We can't forget that Gus was by far the best scorer in the 1979 Finals, with 29 ppg on 49% FG, DJ "only" got FMVP because of his all-around game (played terrific defense while averaging 23/6/6, big minutes too) and clutchness.




He was close, but Cheeks was another player I felt is underrated. In terms of needing to win, it doesn't get better than an efficient scorer and excellent passer who plays phenomenal defense at the PG position. Lever was a solid player who came close. I think Cheeks was a better pure passer and defender. While Lever could score better, I think Cheek's efficiency makes it closer. Ultimately, the type of PG Cheeks was the one I would want on my team.

Cheeks is a very underrated player yea, always loved him as player. I just think that in 1987, Lever (also very underrated) should be above him.

.....

[joeyjoejoe]

Paul wasn't the best PG in 2012 and 2013... that's just going with the general opinion and reputation to avoid any questions...
Especially Parker in 2013

Paul was a beast in 11/12 hit multiple game winners some over great defenders iggy sef/lbaka and can't remember the other one but could find out, had great stats went further in playoffs then most had them going, no one thought they'd top memphis that year

Edit: the other game winner was vs Portland layup over hickson

[ZaaaaaH]

Great job

But where is LeBron?

[Meticode]

Great job

But where is LeBron?

He can play the point guard position, but that's not his position.

[Gifted Mind]

Yea, he was playing for losing teams and doing what he wanted too, still very impressive nontheless. Looking at what the competition was doing, in those years, you're probably right about the rankings. 73 was the year he led the league in points and assists (not 76) but he didn't even make the post-season, for example, while Frazier had a great playoff run and was champion...
I don't know about the passing-game between him and Frazier, Tiny was a dude that overhandle the ball a lot, while Clyde played primarly in a team-first system where the ball was always moving and everybody got their touches, as far as pure passing I'd call it wash probably. As far as scoring, Tiny had the handles and was quick like crazy, great penatrator/finisher and before injuries taking the lift out of his jumpshot he could kill teams with shooting... He was sorta like AI of the 70s.
Yea Archibald was still a solid asset in his Boston days, despite being a shell of his former-self still managed to do it even after one ruptured achilles and a tore one. Even then he was still overhandling a lot though.

I agree with most of your views here. I do think Archibald was a better pure passer, even without his athleticism he was able to be a very effective passer. But you are right Frazier played in a more team orientated offense most of his career, nonetheless Tiny was stuck with not so great teammates most of his career. Overall I agree Archibald did dominate the ball too much and struggled to get his teammates involved. Even in years he was healthy (1972) I put Frazier over him. And in 1973 Tiny had his magical season but Frazier was still my pick for PG of the year. 1975 Archibald made playoffs but I still had Frazier as the better PG. Only in 1976 when Frazier had declined had Archibald surpassed him in my eyes. So I suppose even you would agree the rankings are fair season by season and I am not over crediting Archibald.

I don't know if I'd consider DJ a PG for his career, he only became a full-time PG and playing more as one since 1985 or so. He spent his early prime as a SG, then at his peak was like a combo guard but still more of a SG.
Yea Gus is very overlooked, like I've said he's probably the greatest PG of the 80s, overall, after Magic and Zeke. He was really fast and could score in different ways, master with the floaters, really good scorer, also a nice passer, good at playing the passing lanes on defense. We can't forget that Gus was by far the best scorer in the 1979 Finals, with 29 ppg on 49% FG, DJ "only" got FMVP because of his all-around game (played terrific defense while averaging 23/6/6, big minutes too) and clutchness.

It's not really about what I think or actuality, it's about the general consensus among NBA historians. As you will see most have Dennis Johnson amongst their All-Time best PG lists rather than SG, based exclusively on that Johnson is a PG in this thread. Yes Gus Williams is underrated for sure. He was always a dangerous scorer but by 1982 he was a dual threat. For a modern-day comparison he was as good or better than Deron Williams in Utah (who was the best PG in 2010 in my eyes). It's actually unfortunate for Gus his peak came at the same time Magic and Isiah were playing.

Cheeks is a very underrated player yea, always loved him as player. I just think that in 1987, Lever (also very underrated) should be above him.

Yes Lever was also underrated. One of the rare all-around PGs. But yes just Cheeks superior abilities playmaking and stingy defense gave him the edge for me.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I agree with most of your views here. I do think Archibald was a better pure passer, even without his athleticism he was able to be a very effective passer. But you are right Frazier played in a more team orientated offense most of his career, nonetheless Tiny was stuck with not so great teammates most of his career. Overall I agree Archibald did dominate the ball too much and struggled to get his teammates involved. Even in years he was healthy (1972) I put Frazier over him. And in 1973 Tiny had his magical season but Frazier was still my pick for PG of the year. 1975 Archibald made playoffs but I still had Frazier as the better PG. Only in 1976 when Frazier had declined had Archibald surpassed him in my eyes. So I suppose even you would agree the rankings are fair season by season and I am not over crediting Archibald.

Yea, like I've said, looking at his competition in those certain years I guess I probably agree with your rankings.
That's a fair point but I'd probably call it a wash in terms of pure passing, maybe a slight edge to Tiny. Scoring-wise I'd give it to Archibald even though Frazier could fill it up but at their best, overall, I'd definitely go with Frazier who was also a much better defender, better floor general and even rebounder.

It's not really about what I think or actuality, it's about the general consensus among NBA historians. As you will see most have Dennis Johnson amongst their All-Time best PG lists rather than SG, based exclusively on that Johnson is a PG in this thread. Yes Gus Williams is underrated for sure. He was always a dangerous scorer but by 1982 he was a dual threat. For a modern-day comparison he was as good or better than Deron Williams in Utah (who was the best PG in 2010 in my eyes). It's actually unfortunate for Gus his peak came at the same time Magic and Isiah were playing.

I don't know if that's the general consensus but whatever.
Looking at today's players, at their best, Tony Parker is most likely the best comparison (to Gus Williams, back in the day)... Lots of similarities in their games.
Yea, Gus is really overlooked these days.

Yes Lever was also underrated. One of the rare all-around PGs. But yes just Cheeks superior abilities playmaking and stingy defense gave him the edge for me.

At their very best, it's really hard to pick one tbh... Lever was miles ahead as a rebounder, and he was also a better scorer even though MO could also score (and efficiently); Cheeks was the better defensive player, passer and floor general but Fat could also play defense and pass. Lever also a bit taller but Maurice a bit more overall athletic and overall intangibles I'd give it to Cheeks also.

[Pointguard]

On the Rose change.

[ZaaaaaH]

He can play the point guard position, but that's not his position.

So Magic is a PG but LeBron who brings up the ball and dominates the ball just as much is not?


LBJ is a PG some years for sure.

[russwest0]

westbrook missed time this year (as did Paul, from his own flop nonetheless) but do you not account for playoffs here?

you are overrating chris paul wayy too much

[houston]

interesting thread

[joeyjoejoe]

westbrook missed time this year (as did Paul, from his own flop nonetheless) but do you not account for playoffs here?

you are overrating chris paul wayy too much

the second list includes playoffs and paul had a decent run this year, wbrook outplayed parker every game in wcf but only outplayed paul twice with Paul getting the better of wbrook twice and the other cpl games being about even, just because your team wins doesn't mean you outplayed your cover or one could say parker played better then wbrook which clearly wasn't the case.

Great read op, I do think rose should be #1 on both lists for 10/11