When did Magic Johnson...?

[LeBird]

STFU.....you never saw either of them play live......just admit it!

I saw both. Address the facts, stop talking nonsense. I'm pretty sure no one who watched both, at that time, thought Magic was better. As I said, the ROTY voting was a landslide to Bird.

So you are saying Cedric Maxwell, Tiny Archibald, Dave Cowens, Pete Maravich and Gerald Henderson are crappola? You are f**king nuts dude.

And your post count troubles me.

They had the 2nd worst record in the league and Bird took them to the best in his Rookie season. This is such a well-known fact it shouldn't need repeating to any serious basketball fan.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

They had the 2nd worst record in the league and Bird took them to the best in his Rookie season. This is such a well-known fact it shouldn't need repeating to any serious basketball fan.

Everyone knows about he improvment from 78-79 to 79-80. That doesn't mean the players I listed are crappola. They were excellent and in some cases legendary players. They are far from crap. Furthermore it wasn't the exact same roster in 78-79 that played in 79-80.

[Pointguard]

I can't believe that anyone who watched them, could say Magic was better btw 80 to 85. Bird was clearly the better player at that time. After that Magic caught him and passed him as bird declined after 87. All I know is what my eyes told me.

Put Bird with Kareem those first 3 years and I believe they would have won all 3 years.

I think finals play is what did Bird in. Magic was just better in the finals when you seen them playing each other or when they weren't playing each other. Magic always shot more efficiently, showed better judgement of when to shoot and when to pass, pushed the pace to a level the Celtic's couldn't keep up, and just had a bigger impact when you got to see them compete with one another.

In the Lakers two series wins - Magic scored like Bird and shot the 3 pointer at a superior rate, was within 2 rebounds per game, nearly tripled the assist number, shot free throws better - and despite Magic totally pushing the issue the turnovers were very close to equal.

In the one Laker loss, Bird didn't shoot better, had less total points, but definitely outplayed Magic that time. However, the other two series Magic had visibly more impact and just was better.

Player FG%... FT%... PTS... TRB... AST... TOV
Bird 84.. 48%... 84%... 27.4... 14... 3.6... 25 FMVP
Mag84 L..56%... 74%... 18..... 7.7... 13.6... 31

Mag85 49%... 87%... 18.3... 6.8... 14... 20
Bird85 L 45%... 85%... 23.8... 8.8... 5... 13

Mag87 54%... 96%... 26.2... 8... 13... 13 FMVP
Bird87 L 45%... 92%... 24.2... 10.. 5.5.. 18

1984 was Bird's coming out party in the Finals. Magic had already won two finals MVP's by that time and was in contention for FMVP in '88 played very well in '85 among winning it in '87. Bird had a stellar year in '86 when he won his second. So if you went by Finals work there was separation. Both as individuals and team work.

The Celtics had the best front court in the league throughout those years with two HOF's.

[LeBird]

If the Lakers got to the finals in 86 they would have been beat. The fact that they didn't is the only reason it isn't 2-2 in finals. Magic didn't bring it 'always'. He basically choked in crucial moments for one.

[LeBird]

Everyone knows about he improvment from 78-79 to 79-80. That doesn't mean the players I listed are crappola. They were excellent and in some cases legendary players. They are far from crap. Furthermore it wasn't the exact same roster in 78-79 that played in 79-80.

AI may be legendary, but he isn't performing at that legendary rate. That team - 'team' being the keyword - was crap. It was performing crap, and was the second worst team the season before Bird arrived.

That Bird inherited a far worse team than Magic is not trivial - even Magic, and his fans, would accept that.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

People act like that 1978 team was full of guys like Kwame Brown and Smush Parker but it wasn't. Who knows why they didn't win a lot of games. Maybe they were tanking for more draft picks. lol.

[Legends66NBA7]

plowking, why do you rank Bird over Shaq and Russell too ?

Just curious.

[Pointguard]

You can take the point guard, I'll have the big man. Every great team that wins has size. This Heat team is a rarity that won this year. Look at every other team that has won titles over the years, its always one of, if not the biggest team in the league.

I don't realize how dominant Magic was? I understand how good he was. I just don't think you understand that a big man is far better than a guard. Always has been, always will be. Look at the top 10 for proof. Hakeem, Wilt, Russell, KAJ, Duncan, Shaq, etc... More than half the top 10 are centers. There is a reason for it.

Bird and Magic changed the game from being center oriented. As speed and creativity evolve the game moved away from that. In the age of great centers, Jordan was definitely the best player. Not one of those centers were in his league. KAJ was not a great winner at all in the 70's in an era without franchise players he couldn't make his statement. He truely went thru a Magic make-over. Most of the dynasties had a superstar guard that was gifted with great creativity and leadership. The dynasties went from Magic, Bird, Isiah, Jordan, Hakeem would not have won if Jordan played but he qualifies for sure, Kobe won more than Shaq or Duncan but Shaq and Duncan were truely dynastic. Kobe, Wade and Lebron were really PG when their teams won. Dirk and Durant are the new wave skilled players with great influence.

As the league got more skilled, quicker and faster the center became less effective. Guys with good judgement and strong wills to win is where the game evolutionized too. Shaq had nearly every great quality in a center with about 12 years of being coupled with a top notch player, yet he couldn't distinguish himself winning wise. Things have moved on.

[ThaRegul8r]

If the Lakers got to the finals in 86 they would have been beat. The fact that they didn't is the only reason it isn't 2-2 in finals. Magic didn't bring it 'always'. He basically choked in crucial moments for one.

I could post stuff on Bird to equal that statement, but I won't, because there are people who would just use it to further agendas, and as I couldn't care less about people's agendas or giving them ammo to use, I won't. Unlike some, I have no need to bash other players.

[eliteballer]

I remember you made this thread before... just sayin lol

-Smak

this chump has some obsession with trying to prove Bird was better than Magic.

[LeBird]

I could post stuff on Bird to equal that statement, but I won't, because there are people who would just use it to further agendas, and as I couldn't care less about people's agendas or giving them ammo to use, I won't. Unlike some, I have no need to bash other players.

Then do so. I don't consider it bashing. As I don't consider saying that Bird was better in the beginning as bashing. I think it is simply a far more reliable opinion.

Magic was a great player. As I said before, probably top 5 - meaning you can place him anywhere in that 5 you want and I wouldn't complain much.

Outside the comparison between them; I really wish the league had two superstars like these guys again. Pass-first kind of guys who could also dominate if the need was there. Guys who didn't need more than a handful of shots to be the dominating player on the floor. These guys were truly freakish talents and I am sure their rivalry kept them pushing each other further more. Players who did something amazing - more than just physical, but cerebral - every night and whose teammates loved playing aside them. They made the game fun while elevating it to a whole other plane.