Let's talk about Wilt Chamberlain unbiasedly

[SyRyanYang]

Jlauber please. Don't post an essay here.
Let's talk about him as rational fans, who never watched 60's or 70's. Make reasonable assumption and deduction based on limited footage of his.
Let me start with some guesswork of what he could possibly do in the era.

I'd say he will be a rich man's Shaq. From what I see, he's as athletic as rookie Shaq (which IMO is Shaq' athletic peak). Plus being taller, larger wingspan, and most importantly- defensive mindset. I could see him being DPOY candidate for most of his career and end up winning 5+ of them. And his stats within a span of 10 years of his prime will be something like : 25-30pts/16-20rebs/5blks/4-5asts/55-60fg%
If everything turns out perfectly, he could be the GOAT on top of micheal.

[Zedja]

He'd be Gasol on steriods.

[SyRyanYang]

He'd be Gasol on steriods.

What about the "rational" part?

[LikeABosh]

He was a player ahead of his times. Sure he wouldn't drop 50 per game in today's NBA or in the 80's-90's but he was a freak and a very skilled player. I'd say he puts up something like 26 per game, 15 rebounds, 4 blocks, 3 assists pn 55% shooting. He's definitely top 5 all time IMO. It's Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russell, and Wilt. However you want to order them

[jongib369]

My personal favorite player. IMO, with the competition at the center spot today...If given the touches he could average 35 to 40 a game

I made a post earlier about him...Check out the Offense, With no hand checking and 2 centers that could only give him any real challenge today I dont think its out of the realm of possibility.

35-40 PPG 14-18 RPG (If 6'7 Love can, so can wilt) Depending on his role and what the team wants him to do...5 to 7 Assists...Remember, it was only counted as an assist if the player shot the ball after the pass taking NO steps. 5 to 6 blocks per game. If Mcgee Can get 2.4 playing 27 Minutes per game, what would someone whose more athletic with better timing, a better mind and longer body do?

" What do you guys think of the highlights?


Defense

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEGabY6DMMw


Greatest Offensive Force

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak


Wilt VS Kareem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j6Wvu3fKOA


Wilt VS Shaq Comparison

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZaAzO6fwUE


More athletic than Shaq, griffin?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qsHB1IJvCg


Dunks etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH7OjWsXFEo

Bulls VS lakers- Better passer than Walton?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuuMMu2z6Bs "

[jongib369]

http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/541901.jpg




haha

[fpliii]

Jlauber please. Don't post an essay here.
Let's talk about him as rational fans, who never watched 60's or 70's. Make reasonable assumption and deduction based on limited footage of his.
Let me start with some guesswork of what he could possibly do in the era.

I'd say he will be a rich man's Shaq. From what I see, he's as athletic as rookie Shaq (which IMO is Shaq' athletic peak). Plus being taller, larger wingspan, and most importantly- defensive mindset. I could see him being DPOY candidate for most of his career and end up winning 5+ of them. And his stats within a span of 10 years of his prime will be something like : 25-30pts/16-20rebs/5blks/4-5asts/55-60fg%
If everything turns out perfectly, he could be the GOAT on top of micheal.

I'm interested in hearing what people have to say, but I think the rebound numbers are off. There's a hard upper-limit on rebounding nowadays based on the pace of the game. With fewer possessions his TRB% would go up, but there's no way in hell he (or anybody in league history) would approach 20rpg today. Something like 17 for his career is possible (with a high approaching 18-19), but I just don't see 20 unless he's on one of the faster teams.

If somebody can convince me otherwise please do so. This isn't a shot at Wilt in any way, but I can't see somebody snagging that many boards.

[SuperPippen]

Would still be the best center in the league if he played today. A perennial DPOY candidate, a great rebounder, and very good offensively.

I'd estimate a stat line of 27/14/4/55% for Wilt's peak if he played today.

[colts19]

I think he would be by far the best player in the league. Im old enough to have seen him play and I can tell you he was much more of an athlete than people can imagine. As far as numbers go I would put him at 34 pts 19 rbs, 6ast and 7 blocks. Top 5 all time easy probably Number 1.

[jongib369]

I'm interested in hearing what people have to say, but I think the rebound numbers are off. There's a hard upper-limit on rebounding nowadays based on the pace of the game. With fewer possessions his TRB% would go up, but there's no way in hell he (or anybody in league history) would approach 20rpg today. Something like 17 for his career is possible (with a high approaching 18-19), but I just don't see 20 unless he's on one of the faster teams.

If somebody can convince me otherwise please do so. This isn't a shot at Wilt in any way, but I can't see somebody snagging that many boards.

It all depends on type of team he's with like you said...if its a faster pace team that takes a decent amount of Mid Range and 3 point shots I can see it being close....Chamberlain is a TOP tier player, so any team would look slightly different with him on it to suit him. But I doubt it also

[fpliii]

It all depends on type of team he's with like you said...if its a faster pace team that takes a decent amount of Mid Range and 3 point shots I can see it being close....Chamberlain is a TOP tier player, so any team would look slightly different with him on it to suit him. But I doubt it also

well there are three phases of the game: offense, defense, and rebounding

I'm not speaking to his offense or defense, since there's a lot of analysis you need to do in order to reclassify his game

the rebounds are simpler to deal with...his rebounding percentages look like they'd translate to ~15rpg in the minutes he'd play today (high 30s), nearing that 20 number if he played huge minutes (I don't know if this is/isn't possible, but he wouldn't log near 48 minutes a game)

he'd probably be the rebounding champion nearly every year (and if he did play heavy minutes in his prime, these could get pretty high), but I really think there is a cap nowadays, though I haven't done enough research to place it

[jlauber]

well there are three phases of the game: offense, defense, and rebounding

I'm not speaking to his offense or defense, since there's a lot of analysis you need to do in order to reclassify his game

the rebounds are simpler to deal with...his rebounding percentages look like they'd translate to ~15rpg in the minutes he'd play today (high 30s), nearing that 20 number if he played huge minutes (I don't know if this is/isn't possible, but he wouldn't log near 48 minutes a game)

he'd probably be the rebounding champion nearly every year (and if he did play heavy minutes in his prime, these could get pretty high), but I really think there is a cap nowadays, though I haven't done enough research to place it

Kevin Love averaged 15.2 rpg in 35.8 mpg, in a league that averaged 41.3 rpg two years ago. No way Chamberlain "only" plays 40 mpg, either. So, I suspect 44 mpg for a peak Wilt. Now, think about this...in Wilt's LAST post-season, which covered 17 games (a pretty damed good sample and in which he outrebounded the league's #2 rebounder 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg in the WCF's), Chamberlain grabbed 22.5 rpg...in a league and post-season league that averaged 50.6 rpg. That translates to 18.3 rpg. Granted, he played 47 mpg in that post-season, BUT, that was FAR from a PEAK Wilt, too. In the '67 ECF's, Wilt had games of 28, 29 and even 30% of the total available rebounds (and he just murdered Russell on the glass in those games by margins of 32-15, 36-21, and 41-29.)

Also, Love and Bynum have each had 30 rebound games in the last couple of seasons, so it's not like 20 is an impossibility.

A PEAK Chamberlain, playing 44 mpg, and against the weaker centers that permeate today's NBA? Somewhere around 17-18...and once again, games of 30-35 would not be out of the realm of possibility.

And given the fact that Wilt just POUNDED virtually EVERY opposing center he faced in his career, he would probably do the same to the current crop iof inept clowns that call themselves centers.

[fpliii]

Kevin Love averaged 15.2 rpg in 35.8 mpg, in a league that averaged 41.3 rpg two years ago. No way Chamberlain "only" plays 40 mpg, either. So, I suspect 44 mpg for a peak Wilt. Now, think about this...in Wilt's LAST post-season, which covered 17 games (a pretty damed good sample and in which he outrebounded the league's #2 rebounder 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg in the WCF's), Chamberlain grabbed 22.5 rpg...in a league and post-season league that averaged 50.6 rpg. That translates to 18.3 rpg. Granted, he played 47 mpg in that post-season, BUT, that was FAR from a PEAK Wilt, too. In the '67 ECF's, Wilt had games of 28, 29 and even 30% of the total available rebounds (and he just murdered Russell on the glass in those games by margins of 32-15, 36-21, and 41-29.)

Also, Love and Bynum have each had 30 rebound games in the last couple of seasons, so it's not like 20 is an impossibility.

A PEAK Chamberlain, playing 44 mpg, and against the weaker centers that permeate today's NBA? Somewhere around 17-18...and once again, games of 30-35 would not be out of the realm of possibility.

And given the fact that Wilt just POUNDED virtually EVERY opposing center he faced in his career, he would probably do the same to the current crop iof inept clowns that call themselves centers.

I'm not speaking single-game totals, he might even have the same number of 30-30 games. I just think it's unlikely that coaches will put him in for more than 40 minutes a night in today's game, whether or not he's capable of logging those minutes.

I think 17 is probably where is career number would be, and in the playoffs (when he WOULD be playing his standard minutes) he'd be in the low 20s per night.

For the most part, it seems we're on the same page.

[jlauber]

I'm not speaking single-game totals, he might even have the same number of 30-30 games. I just think it's unlikely that coaches will put him in for more than 40 minutes a night in today's game, whether or not he's capable of logging those minutes.

I think 17 is probably where is career number would be, and in the playoffs (when he WOULD be playing his standard minutes) he'd be in the low 20s per night.

For the most part, it seems we're on the same page.

I wasn't really arguing with you so much, as some other's have pointed out that he would be a 14 rpg guy. How in the hell would Chamberlain, the greatest rebounder in NBA history, only average 14 rpg, in a league in which a 6-9 Kevin Love, playing less than 36 mpg, could average 15.2?

And that LAST post-season series was indicative of what a PRIME Chamberlain would probably carpet-bomb the NBA with. If a 36 year old Wilt, playing on a surgically repaired knee, could average 22.5 rpg, (and outrebound the league's second best rebounder by over SIX per game), in a post-season in which the NBA averaged 50.6 rpg...well, just what would a PRIME Chamberlain have been capable of? Keep in mind that Chamberlain had a FIVE rpg margin over Russell in their 143 H2H games, too...including an amazing 23-4 margin in 35+ H2H games. And, I have often wondered how many "available" rebounds were to be had, when Wilt outrebounded Russell in one game, by a 55-19 margin?

In any case, and depending on what was needed, but a peak Wilt would probably be a 30+ ppg, 17-18 rpg, .550-.600 guy in today's NBA. As well as handing out 4 apg, and blocking 5-6 shots per game.

[fpliii]

I wasn't really arguing with you so much, as some other's have pointed out that he would be a 14 rpg guy. How in the hell would Chamberlain, the greatest rebounder in NBA history, only average 14 rpg, in a league in which a 6-9 Kevin Love, playing less than 36 mpg, could average 15.2?

And that LAST post-season series was indicative of what a PRIME Chamberlain would probably carpet-bomb the NBA with. If a 36 year old Wilt, playing on a surgically repaired knee, could average 22.5 rpg, (and outrebound the league's second best rebounder by over SIX per game), in a post-season in which the NBA averaged 50.6 rpg...well, just what would a PRIME Chamberlain have been capable of? Keep in mind that Chamberlain had a FIVE rpg margin over Russell in their 143 H2H games, too...including an amazing 23-4 margin in 35+ H2H games. And, I have often wondered how many "available" rebounds were to be had, when Wilt outrebounded Russell in one game, by a 55-19 margin?

In any case, and depending on what was needed, but a peak Wilt would probably be a 30+ ppg, 17-18 rpg, .550-.600 guy in today's NBA. As well as handing out 4 apg, and blocking 5-6 shots per game.

http://delawarecolib.newspaperarchiv...&currentPage=0

I can't make out the numbers, but that's the full box score for that game. If you can read the rebounding totals, let me know. We need to add team rebounds of course, which based on a few hundred game sample by the fine fellows at APBRmetrics is ~12.2% for each team. If you get me the totals for each team we can calculate.

As for Love, it's possible that he might come close to rebounding Wilt prior to this season. Before this year he was largely a rebounding specialist with no dominant rebounder (Pek) alongside him, so his numbers were surely inflated. Chamberlain actually noted himself that Rodman would likely outrebound him if they played together, since he was a rebounding specialist (great man defender on the perimeter and post as well, but couldn't anchor a dominant defense or help defend outside).