LeBron will likely surpass Kareem Abdul Jabbar this season

[Kblaze8855]

So Bob Cousy is in fact better at basketball than Mark Price? Or are you failing to grasp the point that makes? Are you somehow mixing Lebron....into that?

[egokiller]

Yeah, because LeBron was the reason at to why Love, Wade, Bosh, and Irving were injured.

Injured? I'm talking about when everyone is playing.

Put lebron in any era and anyone who's actually watched KAJ will probably tell you that KAJ would do better. At least KAJ wouldn't be getting styled on by Jason Terry.

Now stop trying to make claims that one player is better than another when you never watched said player in question play a single game. It makes you come off as an idiot.

[juju151111]

A lot of things impact a players rankings....

But how good at basketball you are and where history ranks you arent all that similar.

You can rank Bob cousy where you want. hes a 6 time champ and an MVP. But hes not starting over Mark Price on the same team. Once you accept that...and that you are asking two entirely different questions? It really should clear up the confusion.

But often it doesnt.

When you lay it out like that people have no problem with it. There is best....there is...most accomplished. Clearly not the same. All agree. Better player...is not always the best combo of accolades.

But give it 10 minutes and put it in another topic? Right back to not being able to discern the difference.

I understand that point, but you rank Bird over LJ because of intangibles not how good they are. Also, how much those playoffs performance impact your ranking.

[tpols]

As simple as that is....people have a lot of trouble with it.

Imagine if John Starks hits the jumper to win the Knicks the title in game 6 in 94. Some of these dudes would actually believe Patrick Ewing was better at basketball than they currently do.

that's life. everybody is judged on results, more or less.

[Kblaze8855]

I understand that point, but you rank Bird over LJ because of intangibles not how good they are. Also, how much those playoffs performance impact your ranking.

You calling skills intangible is the heart of the problem. Not being able to measure passing or ability to make a contested jumper under duress doesnt make it some fully abstract concept like heart.

that's life. everybody is judged on results, more or less.

Thats true. Because its easy. A moron can tell me a guy who won ____ is the best because of it. Thats just not what im looking to discuss.

[juju151111]

You calling skills intangible is the heart of the problem. Not being able to measure passing or ability to make a contested jumper under duress doesnt make it some fully abstract concept like heart.




Thats true. Because its easy. A moron can tell me a guy who won ____ is the best because of it. Thats just not what im looking to discuss.

You didnt answer my question.

[plowking]

Why do you put so much stock into "greatness" and accolades? At the end of the day KAJ was just a better baller. Getting another ring or MVP doesn't make Lebron a better basketball player than his is right now. This should be the only way to look at it. This attempt to make something as inherently subjective as a best basketball players of all time list into something objective is silly.

Actually Lebron is the better basketball player.

Never saw Kareem carrying teams like Bron to the finals. Not like his conference was very hard either. Dude was playing 39 win teams in the conference finals.

[Kblaze8855]

Actually Lebron is the better basketball player.

Never saw Kareem carrying teams like Bron to the finals. Not like his conference was very hard either. Dude was playing 39 win teams in the conference finals.

Kareem one playoff series:

Game 1: 27/16/7/3 (10/? FG)
Game 2: 40/19/3/9 (18/32 FG)
Game 3: 28/14/7/4 (12/20)
Game 4: 41/18/3/0 (15/?)
Game 5: 45/18/3/3 (16/28)
Game 6: 43/20/3/3 (17/25)
Game 7: 36/26/4/1 (14/26)


They lost.

What was he supposed to do?

This is from the first half alone of a game in a series they got swept:













They start triple teaming him....teammates cant take advantage:










Is he really worse at basketball because his guards turn it over back to back to back in a close playoff game and give up a game sealing run?









Note Jerry West(the coach at the time) looking on in disgust.



What should Kareem have done?

At one point he gave Walton(his chief rival) 98 points, 27 rebounds, 17 assists, and 11 blocks over 2 games. He totally works him. But in a series his team gets outplayed no matter how much he personally outplays him by.

That not doing enough carrying? Or we call it what it is?

Kareem was Lebron in Cleveland....for quite a while. He didnt always have Magic.

[GrapeApe]

Wait, there are people who think Lebron is better than Kareem?

Peak Kareem put up 35/17/5 on 57% (and likely 4-5 bpg).

He had a playoff run of 35/18/4/4/2 on 61%. He had championship runs of 27/17/3/4-5 on 52% and 32/12/3/4/1 on 57%.

In terms of resume, if Lebron wins another title, MVP, and FMVP he will he nipping at Kareem's heels. However, peak for peak Kareem is higher.

[Big164]

LOL @ Lebron or Kareem being #2 in a Universe where 50.4 happened

[yeaaaman]

I'd like to point out that Lebron is 2nd all time in PER while kareem is 12th.
Lebron is 1st all time in VORP and Kareem is nowhere near him.
Lebron is 1st all time in win shares and Kareem is nowhere near him.
Lebron (in 12 months time ) will be the all time leading nba scorer in the playoffs - you know, the stage that counts.
Lebron already has more rings as undisputed lead dog than kareem ever did.
Lebron will also end up as number 2-3 in the all time assists playoff list in ADDITION to being the all time top scorer there.
Lebron will be 2nd highest finals scorer all time behind Jerry West, and comfortably ahead of kareem who played in more finals.

I don't think it really makes sense to use averages of a player still playing (particularly while still in their prime) to compare to players who have long retired. Those types of comparisons would make a lot more sense once the active player has retired, and their overall career averages have leveled off to where it is representative of their entire career.

Once any player has those non-prime years when they're career is on a downswing, their overall numbers are obviously going to be affected. I remember when Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady were both top 5 all-time playoff scoring average. Once they started to tail off, guess what, they aren't anywhere near that list anymore.

[Asukal]

LOL @ Lebron or Kareem being #2 in a Universe where 50.4 happened

11 rings to 2 also happened

[Mr Feeny]

I don't think it really makes sense to use averages of a player still playing (particularly while still in their prime) to compare to players who have long retired. Those types of comparisons would make a lot more sense once the active player has retired, and their overall career averages have leveled off to where it is representative of their entire career.

Once any player has those non-prime years when they're career is on a downswing, their overall numbers are obviously going to be affected. I remember when Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady were both top 5 all-time playoff scoring average. Once they started to tail off, guess what, they aren't anywhere near that list anymore.

Oh they're all total/cumulative stats. When I say lebron is already the all time vorp and win shares leader in both the regular season and the playoffs, that's only going to increase.

Fair point with regards to per and ws/48 but the gap is so drastically wide that there's no way kareem could end up higher than lebron even with an extended decline for lebron. He's not just ahead of kareem in these, he's so significantly ahead.

But yes, it would be more interesting to compare averages once both careers are over. But that's why I shied away from using regular season or playoff scoring averages or ws/48 for that matter. I'd rather wait till his career is over.
Having said that,even with all those - again - Lebron is so far ahead that he'll in all likelihood finish ahead of kareem even taking a decline into account.

[Ca$H]

Bran is merely a glorified male prostitute.

[Lebron23]

Bran is merely a glorified male prostitute.

How does LeBron @$$ taste? Never root for the Warriors again.