Why is Kareem Abdul Jabbar so Underrated?

[G.O.A.T]

but why Russell and no Wilt?

Am i missing something here?

Russell is usually ranked ahead of Wilt and was voted the greatest player of all-time over Wilt because he beat him seven of eight times. Including 3 of 4 when Wilt had better players around him and HCA.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Russell is usually ranked ahead of Wilt and was voted the greatest player of all-time over Wilt because he beat him seven of eight times. Including 3 of 4 when Wilt had better players around him and HCA.

didnt Bill play with like 11 hall of famers or something

who had the better team?

[T-bomb 25]

but why Russell and no Wilt?

Am i missing something here?

Wilt is my #4

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

BTW there is so much I'm learing from the these ISH posters

[TDPrime2030]

didnt Bill play with like 11 hall of famers or something

who had the better team?

Everyone played with at the very least 1 HOFer on their team back in the 50s/60s. There were only 8 teams back then. And Bill didn't always have the better team than Wilt, but he did for the most part..

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Wilt is my #4

what's your list overall?

[G.O.A.T]

didnt Bill play with like 11 hall of famers or something

who had the better team?

By 1966 the only HOF'ers Russell had with him were KC Jones (in his last year), Sam Jones (end of his prime) and Havlicek (prime)

Wilt played with two hall of famers in their prime from '66-'69 (Cunningham and Greer iin Philly, West and Baylor in LA) and three more guys in their prime who were considered among the best at their position with the Sixers from '66-'68.

Also if you take the time to look into the subject you'll find that most of Russell's HOF teammates were only HOF'ers because they played with Russell and thus won titles. It's really interesting to learn about the early years of the NBA.

Expanding:

Wilt's team won more regular season games in 1966 thru 1969. Wilt won the regular season MVP from '66-'68.
Russell's Celtics did not win a division title in the regular season after 1965 and still won three more titles.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

By 1966 the only HOF'ers Russell had with him were KC Jones (in his last year), Sam Jones (end of his prime) and Havlicek.

Wilt played with two hall of famers in their prime and three more guys in their prime who were considered among the best at their position.

Also if you take the time to look into the subject you'll find that most of Russell's HOF teammates were only HOF'ers because they played with Russell and thus won titles. It's really interesting to learn about the early years of the NBA.

Yeah it is

but i'm learing alot from you guys so its a good thing

keep it coming guys

[T-bomb 25]

didnt Bill play with like 11 hall of famers or something

who had the better team?

This is the reason why Russell and Magic are not top 5 in my book,Russell even more so he was like 3rd on that team in scoring,so there is no way in hell he is top 5 he is a Center that didnt even shoot 45% from the field even Howard shoots 60+% and thus it lands him as the leading scorer on his team.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

This is the reason why Russell and Magic are not top 5 in my book,Russell even more so he was like 3rd on that team in scoring,so there is no way in hell he is top 5 he is a Center that didnt even shoot 45% from the field even Howard shoots 60+% and thus it lands him as the leading scorer on his team.

yeah. When i look @ Bill stats there is nothing that really standsout IMO except his rebounds.

i dont consider Bill a top 10 in my books

[New York Knicks]

I have Kareem at 1a.

[Duncan21formvp]

Why is it when people discuss the Greatest player of all time the names that usually pop up are Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird or even Bill Russell, but rarely mention Kareem? I wasnt old enough(I'm 17 years old) to watch Kareem play. But i heard he was like a 7'2 version of Tim Duncan!!

Kareem won 6 titles same as M.J, won 6 MVP award which is more than anyone ever in the entire NBA, most career points scored and has been to 19 allstar games.

ISH whats up with that?

A lot has to do that in the 70's an era where a bunch of some of the weakest champions won such as the Warriors, Bullets and Sonics all of which were pretty much one man teams he didn't win at his peak.
He picked up a bunch of titles when he played with another top 5 player all time who also won 3 mvp's and even more finals mvp's than he did.
But even so, he is still top 3 all time.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

[QUOTE=CB4GOATPF][B]
1957-58 NBA Expanded Leaders

Player Efficiency Rating

1. Bob Pettit*-STL 26.3
2. Dolph Schayes*-SYR 24.2
3. George Yardley*-DET 23.3
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]4. Bill Russell*-BOS 22.8 [/COLOR]
5. Cliff Hagan*-STL 22.6
6. Neil Johnston*-PHW 22.5
7. Clyde Lovellette*-CIN 22.2
8. Maurice Stokes*-CIN 20.6
9. Larry Foust-MNL 20.0
10. Harry Gallatin*-DET 19.8
[COLOR="darkgreen"]11. Frank Ramsey*-BOS 19.5[/COLOR]
12. Jack Twyman*-CIN 18.9
13. Vern Mikkelsen*-MNL 18.9
[COLOR="darkgreen"]14. Bill Sharman*-BOS 18.8 [/COLOR]
15. Kenny Sears-NYK 18.5
16. Ed Macauley*-STL 18.4
17. Tom Gola*-PHW 18.3
18. Paul Arizin*-PHW 18.2
[COLOR="darkgreen"]19. Bob Cousy*-BOS 17.9 [/COLOR]
20. Red Kerr-SYR

1958-59 NBA Expanded Leaders

Player Efficiency Rating

1. Bob Pettit*-STL 28.2
2. Elgin Baylor*-MNL 23.6
3. Cliff Hagan*-STL 22.7
4. Kenny Sears-NYK 22.6
5. Paul Arizin*-PHW 21.9
6. Jack Twyman*-CIN 21.3
7. Dolph Schayes*-SYR 21.0
[COLOR="darkgreen"]8. Bill Russell*-BOS 20.7 [/COLOR]
9. George Yardley*-TOT 20.5
[COLOR="darkgreen"]10. Bob Cousy*-BOS 19.9 [/COLOR]
11. Red Kerr-SYR 19.4
12. Richie Guerin-NYK 19.0
[COLOR="darkgreen"]13. Tom Heinsohn*-BOS 17.9[/COLOR]
14. Tom Gola*-PHW 17.4
15. Phil Jordon-DET 16.8
[COLOR="darkgreen"]16. Bill Sharman*-BOS 16.8 [/COLOR]
17. Willie Naulls-NYK 16.5
18. Dick McGuire*-DET 16.5
19. Larry Foust-MNL 16.1
20. Vern Mikkelsen*-MNL


1959-60 NBA Expanded Leaders

Player Efficiency Rating

[COLOR="Red"]1. Wilt Chamberlain*-PHW 28.0 [/COLOR]
2. Elgin Baylor*-MNL 25.2
3. Bob Pettit*-STL 23.7
4. Clyde Lovellette*-STL 23.3
5. Cliff Hagan*-STL 22.0
6. Kenny Sears-NYK 21.8
7. Richie Guerin-NYK 21.4
8. Jack Twyman*-CIN 21.1
9. Dolph Schayes*-SYR 20.5
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]10. Bill Russell*-BOS 20.1 [/COLOR]
11. Willie Naulls-NYK 20.0
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]12. Bob Cousy*-BOS 18.7 [/COLOR]
[COLOR="darkgreen"]13. Bill Sharman*-BOS 18.5
14. Tom Heinsohn*-BOS 18.4 [/COLOR]
15. George Yardley*-SYR 18.2
16. Bailey Howell*-DET 18.1
[COLOR="Red"]17. Paul Arizin*-PHW 17.2 [/COLOR]
18. Red Kerr-SYR 15.7
19. Larry Costello-SYR 15.6
20. Gene Shue-DET

1960-61 NBA Expanded Leaders

Player Efficiency Rating

1. Elgin Baylor*-LAL 28.2
[COLOR="Red"]2. Wilt Chamberlain*-PHW 27.8 [/COLOR]
3. Oscar Robertson*-CIN 25.9
4. Bob Pettit*-STL 25.2
5. Bailey Howell*-DET 21.2
6. Clyde Lovellette*-STL 20.5
7. Cliff Hagan*-STL 20.1
8. Jack Twyman*-CIN 19.6
9. Dolph Schayes*-SYR 19.2
10. Willie Naulls-NYK 19.1
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]11. Tom Heinsohn*-BOS 18.4
12. Bill Russell*-BOS 18.1[/COLOR]
13. Richie Guerin-NYK 17.8
[COLOR="darkgreen"]14. Sam Jones*-BOS 17.7
15. Bob Cousy*-BOS 17.4 [/COLOR]
16. Larry Costello-SYR 17.2
[COLOR="Red"]17. Paul Arizin*-PHW 17.1 [/COLOR]
18. Dick Barnett-SYR 17.1
19. Walter Dukes-DET 16.3
20. Hal Greer*-SYR

1961-62 NBA Expanded Leaders

Player Efficiency Rating

[COLOR="red"]1. Wilt Chamberlain*-PHW 31.8 [/COLOR]
2. Elgin Baylor*-LAL 26.5
3. Walt Bellamy*-CHP 26.3
4. Oscar Robertson*-CIN 26.0
5. Bob Pettit*-STL 24.3
6. Jerry West*-LAL 22.6
7. Richie Guerin-NYK 20.9
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]8. Tom Heinsohn*-BOS 20.0
9. Bill Russell*-BOS 19.4 [/COLOR]
10. Cliff Hagan*-STL 19.4
11. Bailey Howell*-DET 19.1
[COLOR="darkgreen"]12. Bob Cousy*-BOS 18.3[/COLOR]
13. Wayne Embry-CIN 17.9
[COLOR="darkgreen"]14. Sam Jones*-BOS 17.9 [/COLOR]
15. Willie Naulls-NYK 17.7
16. Hal Greer*-SYR 17.5
17. Red Kerr-SYR 17.4
18. Jack Twyman*-CIN 16.7
19. Rudy LaRusso-LAL 16.6
20. Dave Gambee-SYR

1962-63 NBA Expanded Leaders

Player Efficiency Rating

[COLOR="Red"]1. Wilt Chamberlain*-SFW 31.8 [/COLOR]
2. Elgin Baylor*-LAL 26.6
3. Bob Pettit*-STL 25.0
4. Walt Bellamy*-CHZ 24.9
5. Oscar Robertson*-CIN 24.6
6. Jerry West*-LAL 21.9
7. Bailey Howell*-DET 21.6
8. Terry Dischinger-CHZ 20.8
[COLOR="darkgreen"]9. Sam Jones*-BOS 19.1[/COLOR]
10. Johnny Green-NYK 19.0
11. Richie Guerin-NYK 18.8
[COLOR="darkgreen"]12. Tom Heinsohn*-BOS 18.8 [/COLOR]
13. Red Kerr-SYR 18.6
[COLOR="darkgreen"]14. Bill Russell*-BOS 18.2 [/COLOR]
15. Wayne Embry-CIN 18.2
16. Jack Twyman*-CIN 17.8
17. Hal Greer*-SYR 17.3
[COLOR="darkgreen"]18. Bob Cousy*-BOS 16.6[/COLOR]
19. Dick Barnett-LAL 16.3
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]20. John Havlicek*-BOS 15.4[/COLOR]

1963-64 NBA Expanded Leaders

Player Efficiency Rating

[COLOR="Red"]1. Wilt Chamberlain*-SFW 31.6 [/COLOR]
2. Oscar Robertson*-CIN 27.6
3. Jerry West*-LAL 24.2
4. Bob Pettit*-STL 23.6
5. Walt Bellamy*-BAL 23.3
6. Elgin Baylor*-LAL 21.1
7. Bailey Howell*-DET 21.1
8. Terry Dischinger-BAL 19.6
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]9. Bill Russell*-BOS 19.3 [/COLOR]
10. Jerry Lucas*-CIN 18.9
11. Johnny Green-NYK 18.1
12. Hal Greer*-PHI 17.7
[COLOR="darkgreen"]13. Sam Jones*-BOS 17.7 [/COLOR]
14. Red Kerr-PHI 17.1
[COLOR="darkgreen"]15. Tom Heinsohn*-BOS 17.0 [/COLOR]
16. Cliff Hagan*-STL 16.9
17. Ray Scott-DET 16.9
[COLOR="darkgreen"]18. John Havlicek*-BOS 16.9 [/COLOR]
19. Len Chappell-TOT 16.7
20. Gus Johnson-BAL 16.3

1964-65 NBA Expanded Leaders

Player Efficiency Rating

[COLOR="Red"]1. Wilt Chamberlain*-TOT 28.6 [/COLOR]
2. Oscar Robertson*-CIN 26.7
3. Jerry West*-LAL 25.0
4. Walt Bellamy*-BAL 21.7
5. Jerry Lucas*-CIN 20.9
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]6. Sam Jones*-BOS 20.7 [/COLOR]
7. Elgin Baylor*-LAL 20.5
[COLOR="darkgreen"]8. Bill Russell*-BOS 19.5 [/COLOR]
9. Bailey Howell*-BAL 18.9
10. Bob Boozer-NYK 17.8
11. Willis Reed*-NYK 17.8
12. Terry Dischinger-DET 17.7
13. Dave DeBusschere*-DET 17.4
14. Zelmo Beaty-STL 17.2
15. Gus Johnson-BAL 16.6
16. Nate Thurmond*-SFW 16.5
17. Hal Greer*-PHI 16.3
[COLOR="darkgreen"]18. John Havlicek*-BOS 16.3[/COLOR]
19. Rudy LaRusso-LAL 16.2
20. Lenny Wilkens*-STL 15.6

1965-66 NBA Expanded Leaders

Player Efficiency Rating

[COLOR="Red"]1. Wilt Chamberlain*-PHI 28.3 [/COLOR]
2. Oscar Robertson*-CIN 25.2
3. Jerry West*-LAL 24.6
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]4. Sam Jones*-BOS 21.7 [/COLOR]
5. Rick Barry*-SFW 20.0
6. Walt Bellamy*-TOT 19.3
7. Bailey Howell*-BAL 19.0
8. Jerry Lucas*-CIN 18.8
9. Zelmo Beaty-STL 18.5
10. Dick Barnett-NYK 18.4
[COLOR="darkgreen"]11. Bill Russell*-BOS 17.3 [/COLOR]
12. Ray Scott-DET 17.1
13. Elgin Baylor*-LAL 16.9
14. Guy Rodgers-SFW 16.9
[COLOR="darkgreen"]15. John Havlicek*-BOS 16.7 [/COLOR]
16. Rudy LaRusso-LAL 16.4
17. Richie Guerin-STL 16.3
18. Lenny Wilkens*-STL 15.9
[COLOR="Red"]19. Hal Greer*-PHI 15.9
20. Billy Cunningham*-PHI 15.7 [/COLOR]

1966-67 NBA Expanded Leaders

Player Efficiency Rating

[COLOR="red"]1. Wilt Chamberlain*-PHI 26.5 [/COLOR]
2. Oscar Robertson*-CIN 25.5
3. Rick Barry*-SFW 24.2
4. Jerry West*-LAL 22.7
5. Elgin Baylor*-LAL 20.2
6. Willis Reed*-NYK 19.7
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]7. Bailey Howell*-BOS 19.5 [/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]8. Billy Cunningham*-PHI 19.3 [/COLOR]
[COLOR="darkgreen"]9. John Havlicek*-BOS 19.2 [/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]10. Bill Russell*-BOS 18.6
11. Sam Jones*-BOS 18.5[/COLOR]
12. Bob Boozer-CHI 18.4
13. Walt Bellamy*-NYK 18.4
[COLOR="Red"]14. Chet Walker-PHI 17.9 [/COLOR]
15. Guy Rodgers-CHI 17.9
16. Gus Johnson-BAL 17.6
17. Nate Thurmond*-SFW 17.4
18. Jerry Lucas*-CIN 16.9
19. Bill Bridges-STL 16.8
20. Dave Bing*-DET 16.5

1967-68 NBA Expanded Leaders

Player Efficiency Rating

[COLOR="Red"]1. Wilt Chamberlain*-PHI 24.7 [/COLOR]
2. Oscar Robertson*-CIN 24.6
3. Elgin Baylor*-LAL 21.0
4. Jerry Lucas*-CIN 19.8
5. Willis Reed*-NYK 19.5
6. Mahdi Abdul-Rahman-SEA 19.4
7. Zelmo Beaty-STL 19.3
8. Earl Monroe*-BAL 19.3
9. Walt Bellamy*-NYK 19.1
10. Lenny Wilkens*-STL 19.0
11. Nate Thurmond*-SFW 19.0
12. Bob Boozer-CHI 18.6
[COLOR="Red"]13. Billy Cunningham*-PHI 18.6 [/COLOR]
14. Dave Bing*-DET 18.5
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]15. Sam Jones*-BOS 18.3 [/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]16. Bailey Howell*-BOS 18.1
17. John Havlicek*-BOS 17.7 [/COLOR]
18. Rudy LaRusso-SFW 17.5
19. Bob Rule-SEA 17.4
20. Flynn Robinson-TOT 17.2

1968-69 NBA Expanded Leaders

Player Efficiency Rating

[COLOR="Orange"]1. Jerry West*-LAL 22.3
2. Wilt Chamberlain*-LAL 21.9 [/COLOR]
3. Oscar Robertson*-CIN 21.8
4. Willis Reed*-NYK 21.4
[COLOR="orange"]5. Elgin Baylor*-LAL 20.7 [/COLOR]
6. Jerry Lucas*-CIN 20.6
7. Walt Frazier*-NYK 20.2
8. Bob Boozer-CHI 19.9
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]9. Bailey Howell*-BOS 19.4 [/COLOR]
10. Zelmo Beaty-ATL 19.1
11. Jeff Mullins-SFW 18.9
12. Elvin Hayes*-SDR 18.9
13. Billy Cunningham*-PHI 18.7
14. Lou Hudson-ATL 18.7
15. Flynn Robinson-TOT 18.6
16. Bob Rule-SEA 18.6
17. Nate Thurmond*-SFW 18.4
18. Earl Monroe*-BAL 18.4
19. Lenny Wilkens*-SEA 18.4
20. Wes Unseld*-BAL 18.

Russell is the Luckiest Supertar in ALL SPORTS. That

[TDPrime2030]

yeah. When i look @ Bill stats there is nothing that really standsout IMO except his rebounds.

i dont consider Bill a top 10 in my books

Understand that 45% shooting looks like crap now-a-days, but back in the 50s/60s, that was basically the average. Because Russell was Top 5-7 in fg% during his tenure in the NBA. So although it looks like crap now, it was actually average to above average back in those days.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

I have Kareem at 1a.

who 1b?