Can we be honest concerning Kobe vs LeBron?

[Courtside View]

So after the Boston series, LeBron took all kinds of heat. He choked, he's overrated, blah blah blah. Now I know in creating a thread like this, it's going to attract the kind of people that are are programmed to defend Bryant no matter what. I'm just asking for those of you who are knowledgeable, non homer/hero worshipper types to be honest, and take into account situational differences vs hyperbole.

Let's look at how each player has fared vs the Celtics:

LeBron - 29ppg, 44%fg 7.2 asst, 9.3rb, 2.17spg, 4.5 TO
Kobe - (through game 4, 4 games stats aren't up yet)
26ppg, 39%fg, 5.3asst,6.3rpg, 2.3spg, 3.3 TO
Today's game - 33 points, 10-22fg, 2asst, 6rb. 7TO

Is there really a comparison between what kind of support the two have had vs. each other? In LA, you've got the dominant front line, and several players that have given huge contributions at times which put LA over the top, even when Bryant was struggling (especially in crunch time). Artest has, Pau has, Bynum, Fisher has been hugely clutch. Even when Odom isn't performing great, he still has that length to go along with Bynum and Pau. And I would take Odom over anything on Cleveland. Please tell me WHO on Cleveland came anywhere near matching that kind of support on a consistent basis? Mo? Jamison? Shaq?

Like I said, I know this will devolve into the usual hero worshipping crap, but my point isn't really to defend LeBron (though I thought he got unreasonably criticized for his play), it's to point out how so many are either willing to ignore these types of things in order to gloss over their favorite players' struggles, or unable to put things into proper context. Based on their respective teams, and the fact that Kobe has far more support than Bron has which is a FACT that I don't see how anyone can deny, Kobe has not blow Bron away in his play vs. Boston thus far. Further, Bryant's 4th quarter play has also been erratic in this series. Hardly the stuff of "See! He's soooooooo much more clutch than LeBron"

Therefore, how can anyone, with a shred of reason, conclude that Bron disgraced himself and should no longer be ranked as highly and that his Boston series proved that he's not on Bryant's level? And I'm not even saying Bron deserved no criticism for his Boston series, but come on. All things considered, if Cleveland had players that were able to give the contributions that so many key Lakers have, with as much consistency, does anyone think it wouldn't have been a different series with Bron giving the exact same production?

[robertshaw_1]

i will be honest

boston 4 cleveland 2

boston 2 lakers 2 (so far)

[Amil23]

So after the Boston series, LeBron took all kinds of heat. He choked, he's overrated, blah blah blah. Now I know in creating a thread like this, it's going to attract the kind of people that are are programmed to defend Bryant no matter what. I'm just asking for those of you who are knowledgeable, non homer/hero worshipper types to be honest, and take into account situational differences vs hyperbole.

Let's look at how each player has fared vs the Celtics:

LeBron - 29ppg, 44%fg 7.2 asst, 9.3rb, 2.17spg, 4.5 TO
Kobe - (through game 4, 4 games stats aren't up yet)
26ppg, 39%fg, 5.3asst,6.3rpg, 2.3spg, 3.3 TO
Today's game - 33 points, 10-22fg, 2asst, 6rb. 7TO

Is there really a comparison between what kind of support the two have had vs. each other? In LA, you've got the dominant front line, and several players that have given huge contributions at times which put LA over the top, even when Bryant was struggling (especially in crunch time). Artest has, Pau has, Bynum, Fisher has been hugely clutch. Even when Odom isn't performing great, he still has that length to go along with Bynum and Pau. And I would take Odom over anything on Cleveland. Please tell me WHO on Cleveland cameanywhere near matching that kind of support on a consistant basis? Mo? Jamison? Shaq?

Like I said, I know this will devolve into the usual hero worshipping crap, but my point isn't really to defend LeBron (though I thought he got unreasonably criticized for his play), it's to point out how so many are either willing to ignore these types of things in order to gloss over their favorite players' struggles, or unable to put things into proper context. Based on their respective teams, and the fact that Kobe has far more support than Bron has which is a FACT that I don't see how anyone can deny, Kobe has not blow Bron away in his play vs. Boston thus far. Further, Bryant's 4th quarter play has also been erratic in this series. Hardly the stuff of "See! He's soooooooo much more clutch than LeBron"

Therefore, how can anyone, with a shred of reason, conclude that Bron disgraced himself and should no longer be ranked as highly and that his Boston series proved that he's not on Bryant's level? And I'm not even saying Bron deserved no criticism for his Boston series, but come on. All things considered, if Cleveland had players that were able to give the contributions that so many key Lakers have, with as much consistency, does anyone think it wouldn't have been a different series with Bron giving the exact same production?

great post I would like the answer as well

[tumer_t]

who is lebron beside kobe?
kobe's only matchup = jordan

[catch24]

No one is really talking about his stat lines. Rather his demeanor and attitude or lack there of in Game 5.

LeBron > Kobe, btw.

[PP34Deuce]

Kobes problem is he gets caught up in the young games. Half the bricks he throws up are from Ray Allen talking trash to him. I do not understand it but Ray really bothers him mentally than current players.

Kobe is still a better player than Lebron though. He will keep shooting while Lebron has "KG" moments

[bl2k8]

LeBron quit when it was 2-2 against Boston. Kobe's gonna give it his all on Sunday.

[ginobli2311]

So after the Boston series, LeBron took all kinds of heat. He choked, he's overrated, blah blah blah. Now I know in creating a thread like this, it's going to attract the kind of people that are are programmed to defend Bryant no matter what. I'm just asking for those of you who are knowledgeable, non homer/hero worshipper types to be honest, and take into account situational differences vs hyperbole.

Let's look at how each player has fared vs the Celtics:

LeBron - 29ppg, 44%fg 7.2 asst, 9.3rb, 2.17spg, 4.5 TO
Kobe - (through game 4, 4 games stats aren't up yet)
26ppg, 39%fg, 5.3asst,6.3rpg, 2.3spg, 3.3 TO
Today's game - 33 points, 10-22fg, 2asst, 6rb. 7TO

Is there really a comparison between what kind of support the two have had vs. each other? In LA, you've got the dominant front line, and several players that have given huge contributions at times which put LA over the top, even when Bryant was struggling (especially in crunch time). Artest has, Pau has, Bynum, Fisher has been hugely clutch. Even when Odom isn't performing great, he still has that length to go along with Bynum and Pau. And I would take Odom over anything on Cleveland. Please tell me WHO on Cleveland came anywhere near matching that kind of support on a consistent basis? Mo? Jamison? Shaq?

Like I said, I know this will devolve into the usual hero worshipping crap, but my point isn't really to defend LeBron (though I thought he got unreasonably criticized for his play), it's to point out how so many are either willing to ignore these types of things in order to gloss over their favorite players' struggles, or unable to put things into proper context. Based on their respective teams, and the fact that Kobe has far more support than Bron has which is a FACT that I don't see how anyone can deny, Kobe has not blow Bron away in his play vs. Boston thus far. Further, Bryant's 4th quarter play has also been erratic in this series. Hardly the stuff of "See! He's soooooooo much more clutch than LeBron"

Therefore, how can anyone, with a shred of reason, conclude that Bron disgraced himself and should no longer be ranked as highly and that his Boston series proved that he's not on Bryant's level? And I'm not even saying Bron deserved no criticism for his Boston series, but come on. All things considered, if Cleveland had players that were able to give the contributions that so many key Lakers have, with as much consistency, does anyone think it wouldn't have been a different series with Bron giving the exact same production?

i totally agree. mainly not because of the numbers but because of kobe's dreadful 4th qtr play in the last 3 games with the games in doubt. if not for fisher's heroics and ray allen's ice cold shooting on wide open jumpers the lakers should be down 3-1. lol. when was the last time a cavs player stepped up huge at the end of a close game?

kobe has been much much much worse overall than lebron was against the celtics. factor in lebron's defense and his ability to shutdown pierce and its really not close.

but the media and fans have their agenda and no matter what happens kobe will come out of this series looking much better than lebron.

[Micku]

LeBron played better than Kobe against the Celtics, but the series is not over yet. LeBron had a very bad game in game 5 that it seemed like he gave up on the series. Kobe does not seem that way yet, but you can see the frustration with Kobe sometimes. Especially in game 3 where he wanted to shoot the ball a lot.

[K.Koscik]

No one said anything about Lebrons stats. All the criticism pointed to the fact he seemingly game up on the series.

Celtics defense is great, of course stats will be deflated. Anyone who thought Kobe would keep up 30/6/6 on 50% was delusional. He's my favorite player of all time and even I didn't think that

[Courtside View]

Kobes problem is he gets caught up in the young games. Half the bricks he throws up are from Ray Allen talking trash to him. I do not understand it but Ray really bothers him mentally than current players.

Kobe is still a better player than Lebron though. He will keep shooting while Lebron has "KG" moments

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. So because he'll keep shooting, he's better? So his 4th quarter play, with the TOs, etc. are OK?

The difference between their respective teams is simple. LeBron pretty much had to play GREAT every game or Cleveland was going to lose. Kobe can have off games, and the Lakers have enough talent that they can still win.

I mean, is that really arguable? Sometimes I honestly don't understand people who argue up = down.

I'm watching the pressd conference and Kobe himself just said he played like "crap". Which he can do and LA still has a chance to win.

[Indian guy]

The last 3 seasons we've been fortunate enough to see LeBron and Kobe go up against the same team in the playoffs. Boston in '08, Orlando in '09 and Boston in '10. And I have come out feeling better about LeBron in this rivalry every time.

This is why I made no sweeping statements over LeBron vs. Kobe after Boston ousted LeBron while Kobe was beasting against Utah. Even though "this is why Kobe > LeBron" articles were all over the net after Game 5, but I KNEW the difference between facing 2 teams(Utah and Phx) that are every perimeter stars' dream opponent versus facing one of the 5 greatest defensive teams in NBA history.

If LeBron had put together the 4 game stretch Kobe has in these Finals so far, Boston would've swept Cleveland. The only 2 games Cleveland even won in that series featured spectacular games from LeBron. The other 4 games weren't even all that competitive in the 4th qtr. Heck, 2 of the losses weren't even competitive from 2nd qtr onwards. If LeBron was off, forget winning, Cleveland didn't even have a shot at playing a close game. It just goes to show you the difference in talent, defense and coaching between the 2 teams. And none of this will change even if Kobe goes on to be spectacular in the remaining games. We KNOW the real reason why LA can defeat Boston and why Cleveland couldn't.

[Allstar24]

*Yawn*

Same f*cking topic over and over and over again. At what point will you get bored of talking about this? That's the biggest question on my mind. Will it ever get old for you trolls? I think not.

[konex]

Is there really a comparison between what kind of support the two have had vs. each other?

Lakers could have used Shaq and Jamison tonight...

[konex]

Oh also, Kobe is playing Rondo and logging 43 minutes every game cos the bench is awful. I'm not surprised he's fading down the stretch...