If a young Bill Russell and Michael Jordan were time traveled to the same draft...

[kshutts1]

How many HOFers did MJ play with?

How many HOFers did Russell play with?

Seems like MJ did more with less now doesn't it ...

MJ needed his sidekick Pippen, and for a period of time his rebound king Rodman. No doubt. But damn, look at the supporting cast Russell needed to do his winning. Significantly more help.

Not to mention that the league had a lot less teams back in Russell's day, so of course each team will have (in theory) more stars on them. IMO, that makes winning, and consistent winning, harder.

[TheMan]

Let's be honest here, Wilt > Russell

The reason Bill beat Wilt was because he had a better team around him, switch places and Wilt would be the guy with double digit rings.

Bill Russell today would be an All Star defensive center, OTOH, MJ would clearly be the best player in the game.

[iznogood]

^- yup. MJ and Russell are on a comparable level. To say Russell isn't comparable to MJ, Kareem, Wilt, and other GOAT candidates is pretty much a conscious effort at ignoring the actual history of basketball. You want to pick MJ? Great, there are reasons to pick MJ over Russell, you might simply prefer a flashier backcourt player that can score more points and put more fans in the seats. But nobody in the history of the sport could win or play defense like Bill Russell and few could rebound like him.

Jordan was an all time elite defensive player as well yet you make it sound like he was Allen Iverson. Also defense takes a team effort. Russell wouldn't have the same impact on D'Antoni's team compared to the impact he'd have on a teams like Bulls or Pacers. Great scorers however are extremely rare and excellent two way players even more. And I agree with Russell being comparable to other al time greats, I just don't believe in myths ("nobody in the history of the sport could win or play defense like Bill Russell"). Also I agree Russell was one of the best defenders of all time and would be in any era. But it's hard to compare defenders who play on different positions and comparing players from different eras is almost impossible.

[D-FENS]

Jordan. Not even close. If you time travelled Bill Russell to 2014, he'd be no better than Joakim Noah.

I think you need some perspective. We're talking about the 2014 version of Russell. He'd be quite different with all the modern shit. Same with MJ.

In this case, I'm taking Jordan. I don't think Russell would be blocking shots in 2014 and directing them to teammates (arguably his greatest skill). He was blocking crappy floaters from mediocre talent in the 50's and 60's.

[Jailblazers7]

I'd probably take Russell. Hibbert takes Indiana from a solid with no real championship chances to potentially a championship favorite. Bill Russell is better than Hibbert in every facet of the game. Jordan is a GREAT player and would certainly give your team a great shot at a ring in today's NBA but Russell would have the bigger marginal impact.

[TheMan]

The British Empire's Navy won every battle from about 1497-1917. Doesn't mean they'd win against any modern day Navy.

lol

[jlip]

I think you need some perspective. We're talking about the 2014 version of Russell. He'd be quite different with all the modern shit. Same with MJ.

In this case, I'm taking Jordan. I don't think Russell would be blocking shots in 2014 and directing them to teammates (arguably his greatest skill). He was blocking crappy floaters from mediocre talent in the 50's and 60's.

Bill Russell was blocking the shots of athletic Hall of Fame centers above the rim such as Wilt, Reed, and Thurmond, each of whom would be better than any center playing today.

Also, why would he not be blocking shots to his teammates today? That's not really a "skill". It's a mentality. Russell didn't care about the "show". He knew that if the shot was blocked out of bounds, the other team automatically got the ball back. That accomplished nothing really other than taking a few seconds off the shot clock. If it stayed in bounds, his team had an opportunity to recover it. The reasons players block shots into stands and out of bounds today is because it makes Sportscenter and makes them look "tough." They stand and pose block or wave their fingers like Mutombo because they want to be seen on camera. They could easily block those same shots in bounds if they embraced Russell's approach to the game.

[TheMan]

Put the championship (90's) Bulls in the 80's and they ain't getting 4 titles, let alone 6, I'll leave it at that.

I say otherwise, I think the 90s Bulls do get at least 3-4 titles in the 80s. Right off the bat, the 90s Bulls beat Detroit's Bad Boys 88-90 so there's two right there and they'll pick off one each vs the Celts and Lakers.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Not saying I would pick him (also depends on the team) but Russell is getting underrated like crazy here. Talk about ignorant people hating for the **** of it, talking out of their asses, clearly not knowing what they're talking about

......

[fpliii]

What does the talent of the players have to do with the difficulty of the block?

I saw the block he had on Wilt Chamberlain, the most impressive block from him anybody has ever seen. And name one player, that is top ten in blocks this entire season who cannot make that play? It's pathetic how people hype this guy, nothing about him was GOAT level.

And Russell wasn't even close to the highest jumper of all-time, so if he was blocking shots and touch passing them as he did it, the shots were pathetic attempts by mediocre basketball players.

If you want to make an anti-Russell argument (and legitimate cases can be made against him), you're going about it the wrong way.

[fpliii]

Evidence? Don't quote me, show me.

He wasn't better than Shaq or Dwight, that's for sure.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/9...sports-science

Just to confirm, what do you want to "be shown"? Evidence of Russell reaching 12'6" or higher? You promise you won't shift the goal posts again?

I'll look when I get home from work, but CavsFTW can probably provide it for you.

[TheMan]

I think as much as some people underrate Russell here, others overrate him. Can anyone here with a straight face argue Russell was a more complete big man than Wilt, KAJ, Shaq or Hakeem??? Again, put Tim Duncan against the competition Bill faced and TimmyD would be sporting the same if not more jewelery.

SMH at those who think the overall talent pool in the 50's-60's is comparable to today.

[jlip]

What does the talent of the players have to do with the difficulty of the block?

I saw the block he had on Wilt Chamberlain, the most impressive block from him anybody has ever seen. And name one player, that is top ten in blocks this entire season who cannot make that play? It's pathetic how people hype this guy, nothing about him was GOAT level.

And Russell wasn't even close to the highest jumper of all-time, so if he was blocking shots and touch passing them as he did it, the shots were pathetic attempts by mediocre basketball players.

How do you know that's the most impressive block of Russell that anyone has ever seen? No...It's the most impressive block of his that YOU have seen. You know basically nothing about his game, as is clearly shown all throughout this thread, other than what you've seen from a few 5-10 minute clips on YouTube.

Arguably the most impressive block of Russell's career was something called the "Coleman Play." I know that you know absolutely nothing about that. So just Google it.

By the way, here is a picture of Bill Russell attempting to clear a 6-9 1/8 in a track meet. When Russell attempted this, the world record was 6-11 1/2 inches. Clearly you see his body is over the bar. He didn't clear it with his feet though.

[D-FENS]

Bill Russell was blocking the shots of athletic Hall of Fame centers above the rim such as Wilt, Reed, and Thurmond, each of whom would be better than any center playing today.

Also, why would he not be blocking shots to his teammates today? That's not really a "skill". It's a mentality. Russell didn't care about the "show". He knew that if the shot was blocked out of bounds, the other team automatically got the ball back. That accomplished nothing really other than taking a few seconds off the shot clock. If it stayed in bounds, his team had an opportunity to recover it. The reasons players block shots into stands and out of bounds today is because it makes Sportscenter and makes them look "tough." They stand and pose block or wave their fingers like Mutombo because they want to be seen on camera. They could easily block those same shots in bounds if they embraced Russell's approach to the game.

NO need to wet the bed. Russell's game wouldn't translate as well to this era, it's not a burn on his past achievements. Wilt would be great in any era, I just don't see Russell being a force.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I say otherwise, I think the 90s Bulls do get at least 3-4 titles in the 80s. Right off the bat, the 90s Bulls beat Detroit's Bad Boys 88-90 so there's two right there and they'll pick off one each vs the Celts and Lakers.

Would've been extremely tough even for the best Bulls team, against the 1989 Pistons.


At least? No way. I'll say 3 and I can see the case for 4 but definitely not more than that.
Have the Bulls from 1990-1998, instead playing in 1980-1988 and they ain't getting more than 3/4, no way...

- they're not beating the Lakers in 1980

- they're not beating the 76ers in 1983

- can't see them beating the Celtics in 1986, in the EC, although it would've been one hell of a battle

- they're not beating the Lakers in 1987, although it could've been very close

- they're not getting past the Bad Boys in 1988, if you want to go further, same goes for 1989


So, I can see them winning 3, max 4, between 1981, 1982, 1984 and 1985, and that's if Jordan didn't retire, as he did.. they would've stood great chances in 1984 and 1985, but then you also have to consider the physical condition factor for the rest of the decade, in regards to Jordan, even the rest of the team. It would've been some really gruelsome series vs the Celtics, and then if they won, they were going against LA in the Finals.. that takes a lot out of a superstar player.
It was tough af to come out of the East against teams like the Celtics, the 76ers or the Bucks, then having to face the Lakers in the Finals.
If you want you can "have" the Bulls instead of the Bucks, in the 80s, even instead of the 76ers - it's better to look at it that way even in this hypothetical situation - and they're not getting more than 4 titles.