Miami Heat Player Only Meeting to Happen.

[RazorBaLade]

This is a team that is 37-14. You do realize that?

They have a stretch where they lose 3 games out of the last 5 or 6 and now you come up with the argument that they're worse off because LeBron takes "too many shots" and Wade is better as a 6th Man.

Its a complete over-reaction for a team that just lost a game on National TV.

The only issue I see with this team is a very normal lack of motivation and complacency that you see out of top teams nearing the Playoff stretch. This is the perfect time for a veteran coach to step in with some motivational tactics to manipulate the team. Unfortunately, that job falls upon the shoulders of the Team Captain in Dwyane Wade. Apparently Dwyane Wade feels the same way based on his reaction in the huddle trying to motivate these guys despite the deficit and flat play.

However, citing their struggles over the last week due to their lineup or players really is a stretch to suggest. Are you eating your words when they're beating teams by 15-25 or are you still claiming LeBron takes "too many" shots or Wade is better used as a 6th Man?

Oh I should clarify, I'm just referring to the same problems that lost them last year still being in place this year. They haven't been fixed during the regular season , yet. I don't know if they will be fixed during the playoffs. The same thing that made them beatable last year will make them beatable this year against even better competition this year as RBA alluded to.

Its not so much a "lol they lost, they have problems" as it is "they still obviously have these problems and they will not go away"

But yeah you're right, maybe I'll be eating my words in the playoffs. Still a lot of talent for one team.

[DMAVS41]

Now, bringing Wade or James off of the bench may work, but their egos are way too big for that. I don't see that ever happening, unless Wade slowed down to the point where he obviously was not the answer as a SG on a team with James/Bosh.

I don't think Wade's struggles this year have been due to him slowing down, either. He is no longer in his athletic prime, but he is still one of the best player in the league. He and LeBron just do not work well together in a halfcourt offense.

But, yes... If by "backseat" you mean bringing Wade or James off of the bench, that might alleviate some of the problems. But, they would still be on the court together in the 4th Quarter and they'd be back to taking turns, which slows everything on that team to a halt.

Serious issues, here.

Also, there is no doubt that last year was their best shot at a title given their opponents. Boston was beaten and battered after a long 82-game season. Then, Rondo has to play the series with basically one arm (people forget that injury when looking back, it broke the Celtics). This year's Boston team looks as though they handled the regular season much smarter and they are playing their best basketball right now. Plus, Ray is getting rested up all the while. They are in a much better place.

Then, you had the Bulls which were a little too fresh and inexperienced to take that next step. The Magic were a shell of the team that made the Finals in '09.

In the West, OKC was a lot like Chicago... Too fresh and young to take that final step. The Lakers were a shell of the championship team from the season before.

The team that the Heat ended up facing in the Finals many predicted to be beaten by Portland in the FIRST ROUND (myself included). The Heat will not see an easier road than that one to a championship as long as they are assembled with their current superstars.

Chicago is much better and experienced. Boston is in a better place and Rondo should be healthy for a playoff push. Even teams like Atlanta and Orlando are in better places now than they were last year.

Out West, OKC is looking like they ARE ready to take that step. Then, you have a Spurs team playing their best basketball in years (I still don't like their chances in the POs), another "super-team" in the Clippers... And a really scary team that is just under the surface, waiting to explode in Memphis.

It is a far superior field this season as opposed to last and I don't think the Heat have really gotten better.

Scary time if you are a James/Heat fan. That window isn't as wide as it once looked.


Crazy to think about, but what if Dan Gilbert ends up being right?

That isn't to say that the Cavs are anywhere close to competing for the playoffs, let alone a title, but they have done an amazing job of re-assembling talent and they have the picks/draft position to get pretty damned talented in the coming years. If James doesn't win a title this year, he may never win one.

I still think they will win at least one title together, but it isn't looking as certain as it once did.

Wade isn't struggling this year. He's played quite well. The problem has really nothing to do with Wade and Lebron not playing well. Its about what it does to the team when they are on the court together. Bosh is hugely marginalized and nobody is playing at an optimal level.

Its just a lesson in diminishing returns. When Bosh, Lebron, and Wade are on the court at the same time...their impact individually diminishes too often.

And this isn't me making excuses or something for them. Bosh isn't the defender/rebounder he should be. Wade and Lebron aren't the shooters or off ball players they should be. They all have limitations in their games that are causing these issues.

Having said all of that...they could still easily win the title and are still the betting favorites.

[Dengness9]

What do they have to re-prove against Chicago?

Its in reverse.

It is Derrick Rose who has to prove himself against Miami.

It will be the defining moment of his career to cross that path by elevating his team past a team who defeated him previously on the biggest stage of his career to that point.

What they have to re-prove is beating them again. Last year was last year. This year is this year.

Nothing is guaranteed. They have just as much to prove as the Bulls IMO.

[Sarcastic]

What they have to re-prove is beating them again. Last year was last year. This year is this year.

Nothing is guaranteed. They have just as much to prove as the Bulls IMO.

The Heat don't have to re-prove anything to the Bulls

Regular season titles are meaningless. In the last decade only 2 times has the team with the best record won the title.

[RedBlackAttack]

Wade isn't struggling this year. He's played quite well. The problem has really nothing to do with Wade and Lebron not playing well. Its about what it does to the team when they are on the court together. Bosh is hugely marginalized and nobody is playing at an optimal level.

Its just a lesson in diminishing returns. When Bosh, Lebron, and Wade are on the court at the same time...their impact individually diminishes too often.

And this isn't me making excuses or something for them. Bosh isn't the defender/rebounder he should be. Wade and Lebron aren't the shooters or off ball players they should be. They all have limitations in their games that are causing these issues.

Having said all of that...they could still easily win the title and are still the betting favorites.

If I absolutely had to put my money on the table with a gun to my head, I would put it on the Heat. When you have arguably the two best players in the league and one of the very best players at his position all on the same team, there would have to be a catastrophic meltdown for them not to be the favorites. We are not to that point yet, although I do think that there are a couple of teams in the league nearly as talented but work better together as a unit.

Statistically, Wade is having an excellent year, as is James. As I said in a previous post, I'm talking about more than just statistics, though. I guess it is just the nature of this team, but he is invisible far more often than he should be considering how great of a player he is and at this stage of his career. It seems he is either going off for 30+ on 60+% shooting or he has a game like today, where he has 15 on 30% shooting.

So, maybe saying that he is "struggling" wasn't the correct phrasing, but he is more inconsistent than I ever remember him. Then again, the same goes for James.

I know occasionally like against Toronto the other night, both guys get it going in the same game, but those nights seem to be coming less and less often. When I watch the Heat, which admittedly hasn't been all that often this year given my excitement about what is happening in Cleveland, either James or Wade stands out.

I guess what we both are saying is that, while great teams of the past like the 80s Celtics/Lakers, 90s Bulls, 90s/00s Spurs, 00s Lakers, etc. didn't just work well together, but they actually brought out the best in one another, these guys rarely pull that off on the offensive end, aside from in transition (where they are one of the best ever duos).

They are both really great players but simply don't compliment one another in the halfcourt game.

This is no breaking news, obviously, but when people were doing backflips about this team in the summer of 2010, it is the initial reaction that I had. It just didn't make basketball sense to me and it still doesn't.

As for Bosh, when you are disengaged offensively it tends to bleed over into the defensive game. Of course the classic response is that one thing should have nothing to do with the other, but it is something that happens to incredibly skilled offensive players when they aren't producing on that end. For great defensive players like Rodman, he didn't have to be involved in the offense to be able to take over defensively and on the boards...

Bosh isn't that kind of player. I believe if he fit in better offensively on this team and he had the kind of freedom that a player of his caliber would normally have on virtually any other unit in the NBA, you would see a better effort on the defensive side of the ball. It is a lame excuse, but the truth, I believe.

Bosh has never been a great defensive player, but he is better than what he has shown in Miami.

All of that said, they may well win a title. It wouldn't shock me.

My point above (which got completely misconstrued) is that, if they don't get it done this year, we have to start to wonder when/if it will happen with this particular group. Right now, it is still too early in this experiment to declare the probability of a dynasty dead. Another failure this year will get some momentum going on that thought, though, and it will only intensify the pressure as the young elite teams across the league continue to improve.

Very interesting dynamic happening right now with the Heat, their expectations, their current state and the state of the rest of the league.

[Indian guy]

They would have won the championship last season had LeBron simply bothered to compete in the Finals. So spare me the "they just don't fit" garbage.

Miami's problem is that they just aren't very good. They rode the Big 3's greatness to the Finals last season, despite being very flawed at most other facets of the game. This year, all 3 of them have regressed. Bosh's jumper has been MIA since February. Injuries have hampered Wade's dominant slashing game and LeBron, who's already a shell, is even more a shell with his below-average jumper this season.

[RazorBaLade]

They would have won the championship last season had LeBron simply bothered to compete in the Finals. So spare me the "they just don't fit" garbage.

Miami's problem is that they just aren't very good. They rode the Big 3's greatness to the Finals last season, despite being very flawed at most other facets of the game. This year, all 3 of them have regressed. Bosh's jumper has been MIA since February. Injuries have hampered Wade's dominant slashing game and LeBron, who's already a shell, is even more a shell with his below-average jumper this season.

Lebron is naturally willing to defer in the 4th but completely unwilling to defer in the first 3 quarters.

So what happens is when you're playing against a feisty team that hangs around, you can always comeback and win in the clutch because lebron doesnt let anyone get going until suddenly at one point in the 4th he passes and goes to stand in the corner. He has shown nothing that will change that mentality...

just my armchair observations tho.....

[RedBlackAttack]

They would have won the championship last season had LeBron simply bothered to compete in the Finals. So spare me the "they just don't fit" garbage.

You still think that James and Wade compliment one another in the halfcourt offense? Transition game? Absolutely. Defensively? No doubt.

In the halfcourt? Neither one is good enough off the ball to really have everyone clicking at the same time.

They could have won the title last year had James played even average in the Finals, but that sort of goes back to this point.

Their first two series were complete mismatches in terms of talent. Neither Philly nor Boston (especially with the ailing Rondo) had any chance of beating Miami.

However, against Chicago, James was great and Wade was below average. Against the Mavs, Wade played much better but James' game was almost invisible.


Wade, James and Bosh are so individually talented that it was almost enough to ride it to a championship last year and it may be enough this year. But, it is no newsflash that this isn't the most cohesive Big 3 ever. Compare the Heat to, say, the Cs Big 3 with Ray, PP and KG... That Cs unit makes perfect sense together both on paper and on the floor. They truly bring out the best in one another and would have been downright scary if they had joined forces early in their careers. Wade and James? They just don't make that kind of sense in the halfcourt offense either on paper or in reality.

[DMAVS41]

If I absolutely had to put my money on the table with a gun to my head, I would put it on the Heat. When you have arguably the two best players in the league and one of the very best players at his position all on the same team, there would have to be a catastrophic meltdown for them not to be the favorites. We are not to that point yet, although I do think that there are a couple of teams in the league nearly as talented but work better together as a unit.

Statistically, Wade is having an excellent year, as is James. As I said in a previous post, I'm talking about more than just statistics, though. I guess it is just the nature of this team, but he is invisible far more often than he should be considering how great of a player he is and at this stage of his career. It seems he is either going off for 30+ on 60+% shooting or he has a game like today, where he has 15 on 30% shooting.

So, maybe saying that he is "struggling" wasn't the correct phrasing, but he is more inconsistent than I ever remember him. Then again, the same goes for James.

I know occasionally like against Toronto the other night, both guys get it going in the same game, but those nights seem to be coming less and less often. When I watch the Heat, which admittedly hasn't been all that often this year given my excitement about what is happening in Cleveland, either James or Wade stands out.

I guess what we both are saying is that, while great teams of the past like the 80s Celtics/Lakers, 90s Bulls, 90s/00s Spurs, 00s Lakers, etc. didn't just work well together, but they actually brought out the best in one another, these guys rarely pull that off on the offensive end, aside from in transition (where they are one of the best ever duos).

They are both really great players but simply don't compliment one another in the halfcourt game.

This is no breaking news, obviously, but when people were doing backflips about this team in the summer of 2010, it is the initial reaction that I had. It just didn't make basketball sense to me and it still doesn't.

As for Bosh, when you are disengaged offensively it tends to bleed over into the defensive game. Of course the classic response is that one thing should have nothing to do with the other, but it is something that happens to incredibly skilled offensive players when they aren't producing on that end. For great defensive players like Rodman, he didn't have to be involved in the offense to be able to take over defensively and on the boards...

Bosh isn't that kind of player. I believe if he fit in better offensively on this team and he had the kind of freedom that a player of his caliber would normally have on virtually any other unit in the NBA, you would see a better effort on the defensive side of the ball. It is a lame excuse, but the truth, I believe.

Bosh has never been a great defensive player, but he is better than what he has shown in Miami.

All of that said, they may well win a title. It wouldn't shock me.

My point above (which got completely misconstrued) is that, if they don't get it done this year, we have to start to wonder when/if it will happen with this particular group. Right now, it is still too early in this experiment to declare the probability of a dynasty dead. Another failure this year will get some momentum going on that thought, though, and it will only intensify the pressure as the young elite teams across the league continue to improve.

Very interesting dynamic happening right now with the Heat, their expectations, their current state and the state of the rest of the league.

If they don't win it this year it is almost a certainty that it will be a failure overall.

They lack one of the most essential aspects of winning a title. Interior defense/rebounding. Joel Anthony is a joke. He's horrendous. He has to be among the worst players in the league....probably the worst starter in the league. At least in terms of production.

They have a young and inexperienced head coach.

And they have 3 star players that clearly do not complement each other well. At times? Yes...but not enough against the good teams.

Going back to the finals, Lebron would never have had a chance to play that poorly if he didn't have a player as great as Wade next to him. Lebron would have been forced to simply do more on the court. They might have still lost, but this "invisible" Lebron we saw last year and this year at times simply would not exist.

You would never put Kobe and Iverson on the same team. While that is a bit on the extreme side of an example, it does illustrate the point. Two ball dominant perimeter players that can't spot up shoot is never going to be ideal. Then throw in Bosh...who can't do anything in terms of defense/rebounding....and his offensive game is marginalized because he's nowhere near as good as Lebron or Wade. So it would be silly to feature Bosh more because he's not nearly as good.

I really thought Lebron had "figured it out" so to speak early on this year. His post game, while still rough around the edges, was working. He wasn't settling for threes...and he was working his ass off on defense. All of that has changed in the last month or so.

They need to do one of two things imo:

1. Bring Wade off the bench Ginobili style

2. Make Lebron solely a post player when Wade is on the floor

There is little to no movement on offense as is. Just standing around watching two truly amazing players create out of thin air....they are so good that even with all their flaws and the teams flaws...they have a great record and still are probably the favorites to win.

But from just an enjoying good basketball place...the Heat play the game the exact opposite of how it should be played.

And another thing that is troublesome is the entire lack of energy and consistency. In 09 and 10, Lebron had those Cavs teams playing so hard every single night. He set the tone night in night out and they won so many games they really shouldn't have in the regular seasons just on effort and energy every night.

The Heat are the exact opposite. They don't play with any urgency at all and they are losing games they have no business losing.

I mean...it really is crazy to think about. Think about the Heat team with Tyson Chandler and Gerald Wallace instead of Lebron. Because that is the type of team the Heat would have right now if Lebron chose NY or stayed.

Its an infinitely better team in my opinion.

[305Baller]

let the doomsayers comethhhhh

[Kingwillball]

Some Good Posts here, Agree with alot of it. Not going to rehash what everyone else is writing but it Really annoys me in the Half Court When Wade has Ball on one side and Lebron stands in Corner When Wade Drives the WHole Defense collapses most of the Time why cant Lebron Cut toward the basket from the opposite side for Easy Dunks and Layups.. He rarely does this and Vice Versa with Wade.. With that said this team is going to have to run some more set plays in the PLayoffs with the Big 3 cause there Fastbreak gm will be limited and the Offesne they are running now is Pathetic when Lebron and Wade are not on Fire or hitting tough shots.. Oh yeah JOel Anthony is a Waste of Space on the Court, ridiculous this Bum gets many Minutes producing nothing night after night..

[Rowe]

This was meant to be a dynasty. To look at it from any other 'perspective' is not being true to the expectations of, not just the general public, but the players themselves who put this together.

Nobody can predict a Dynasty.

You have to remember that a lot of "fans" put ridiculous expectations on this team from the start. What I'm seeing is a very, very good team overall that gets way more criticism than it deserves for not being some dominant force thats supposed to go 72-10 as some predicted last season alone.

I DID NOT SAY that this is the only chance that LeBron has to win a title. What a complete misunderstanding of my post or a blatant attempt to put words in my mouth (or post, as it were). I was saying that the road is going to get more difficult, not less. That absolutely looks to be the case considering the other teams in the league improving.

While other teams are "improving", what makes you think Miami is taking a step back?

Honestly you're acting as Miami as a team is declining when Wade is 30, LeBron is 27, and Bosh is 28. These guys are still in the primes of their careers. You eluded to the Bulls who have a "core" that is Rose at 23 while Noah is 27 and Deng is nearing 27. Where is this huge age gap that allows the Bulls to be improving at a more rapid pace than Miami?

This ties back into what I asked you in my previous post.

So what makes you think the window is closing for LeBron to win a Title?

LeBron could be on a title-winning team five years from now. I just don't think it will be with Wade and Bosh as this team is presently constructed. And, yes, I do think that, in retrospect, last season was their easiest path.

Fair enough if I took your comment out of context about LeBron "never" winning a Title.

What, exactly, is "off the deep end" about that? Seems like common sense. The other best players in the league, aside from Wade and Kobe, are younger than James. Last season presented the perfect opportunity of the old guard (Celtics and Lakers) falling way off of their previous efforts and the young guns (Bulls and OKC) not being ripe enough yet for that kind of run.

Off the deep end in that you're presenting your argument as if Miami's window is closing for some odd reason and the sense of urgency is at its peak. LeBron is at the peak of his career in the running for another MVP but you come out of nowhere suggesting all of these problems with the Heat due to their personnel. I simply dont understand how you're critiquing LeBron in such a way. They lose to Boston on ABC and now Miami "missed their chance" by not winning last season and now they have to worry about the Bulls and Thunder passing them by.

Is LeBron declining? Wade? Bosh? Did Pat Riley decide to stop making attempts to improve their team?

All of that stuff is subjective.

Just as much as its subjective to think that because the Thunder are "young" that it means various factors fall in place to make them a Title Contender in a long-term sense.

I don't even know what your last sentence means. Please translate, because I would like to respond to it...

"You're seeing a far bigger issue than anyone else is and tieing that into LeBron & his legacy, which is pretty ridiculous as it is."

What does that mean?

That is directed towards your comment suggesting the problem with the Heat from being a better team lies within LeBron in the half court.

As a Cleveland fan, it is not hard to sense sour grapes in such an assertion.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

[DMAVS41]

Nobody can predict a Dynasty.

You have to remember that a lot of "fans" put ridiculous expectations on this team from the start. What I'm seeing is a very, very good team overall that gets way more criticism than it deserves for not being some dominant force thats supposed to go 72-10 as some predicted last season alone.



While other teams are "improving", what makes you think Miami is taking a step back?

Honestly you're acting as Miami as a team is declining when Wade is 30, LeBron is 27, and Bosh is 28. These guys are still in the primes of their careers. You eluded to the Bulls who have a "core" that is Rose at 23 while Noah is 27 and Deng is nearing 27. Where is this huge age gap that allows the Bulls to be improving at a more rapid pace than Miami?

This ties back into what I asked you in my previous post.

So what makes you think the window is closing for LeBron to win a Title?





Fair enough if I took your comment out of context about LeBron "never" winning a Title.


Off the deep end in that you're presenting your argument as if Miami's window is closing for some odd reason and the sense of urgency is at its peak. LeBron is at the peak of his career in the running for another MVP but you come out of nowhere suggesting all of these problems with the Heat due to their personnel. I simply dont understand how you're critiquing LeBron in such a way. They lose to Boston on ABC and now Miami "missed their chance" by not winning last season and now they have to worry about the Bulls and Thunder passing them by.

Is LeBron declining? Wade? Bosh? Did Pat Riley decide to stop making attempts to improve their team?

All of that stuff is subjective.

Just as much as its subjective to think that because the Thunder are "young" that it means various factors fall in place to make them a Title Contender in a long-term sense.










That is directed towards your comment suggesting the problem with the Heat from being a better team lies within LeBron in the half court.

As a Cleveland fan, it is not hard to sense sour grapes in such an assertion.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

Its not just about winning 1 title for this team. Its about winning multiple titles. Last year I didn't expect them to win, but they should have. They made the finals and easily had the better team and they straight up choked.

So they already let one golden opportunity go by. How many more does this team have left if they fail this year? 3...maybe 4? If this team does not win at least 2 or 3 titles its an absolute failure of epic proportions. You have two of the 5 best players in the league on the same team flanked by an all star pf and a pretty decent supporting cast.

I'm sorry, but I could not imagine the hate that a guy like Kobe or Dirk would get if they were in a similar situation.

For example....imagine Kobe, Dirk, and even a player like Tyson Chandler on the same team with role players like chalmers, battier, haslem, anthony, miller....etc.

If that team didn't win the title all hell would break loose on here.

[pnyozzzoo]

Miami is a "Streaky" good team,due to so called metal weakness and prone to melt down.

They win and lose game in a bad way, streaky. lets say 2 good teams around 75% win rate. You want win 3 lose 1 win 2 lose 1 win 2 lose 1. in the play off.

But Miami when they hot they feel good and they win a lot but once they lose they struggle for a while esp last year. That's disaster in the player off. you win 7 then lose 3 in a row thats bad for playoff series based games.

[305Baller]

Miami is a "Streaky" good team,due to so called metal weakness and prone to melt down.

They win and lose game in a bad way, streaky. lets say 2 good teams around 75% win rate. You want win 3 lose 1 win 2 lose 1 win 2 lose 1. in the play off.

But Miami when they hot they feel good and they win a lot but once they lose they struggle for a while esp last year. That's disaster in the player off. you win 7 then lose 3 in a row thats bad for playoff series based games.