Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

[ThaRegul8r]

and ppl point out how clutch reggie is which he is but hes had a LOT of horrible moments that ppl just love to overlook as well

I find this odd when people arguing for Ray Allen say this, because it's as if Allen hasn't had horrible moments.

[LIST]They act like Ray Allen wasn't the invisible man in 2008 before the Finals. He averaged 9.3 points on 32.7% shooting, 46.0% TS against Cleveland, and went 1-6 for 4 points, 0 rebounds, 1 assist in the deciding Game 7. If Boston needed Allen to produce, they never would have made it to the Finals. If Miller sucked, the Pacers lost. Allen could suck and have a Hall of Fame teammate score 41 to bail him out. If the Celtics lose that series, Allen gets crucified. But since they won and Allen actually decided to show up in the Finals, the ring erases his previous suckage from everyone's memories.[/LIST]
[LIST]I've seen people mention Allen's record 8-11 three-point shooting in Game 2 of the 2010 NBA Finals, yet neglect to mention than Allen immediately followed it by going 0-13, and shot 31.4% from the floor, 13.3% from three for the entire series excluding that one game. That was a horrible series, not one isolated moment. Game 2 was the aberration, and Games 1, 3-7 were the norm.[/LIST]
[LIST]Everyone talked about Game 6 of the 2009 first round playoff matchup between the Boston Celtics and Chicago Bulls, in which Allen scored 51 points on 18-for-32 shooting from the floor, 9 of 18 from downtown in a 128-127 triple-overtime loss, but in the second round Allen proceeded to average 13.1 points on 34.4% shooting from the floor, 19.0% from beyond the arc and 45.2% TS.[/LIST]

No one ever mentions Allen's streakiness and disappearing acts. People have a guy and emphasize low moments of whomever their guy is pitted against while not saying a word about their chosen guy's low moments. People are prone to only telling one side of the story. I'd just like to see people who are prone to do this tell both sides, but I know that's too much to ask for on the internet.

[Boston C's]

I find this odd when people arguing for Ray Allen say this, because it's as if Allen hasn't had horrible moments.

[LIST]They act like Ray Allen wasn't the invisible man in 2008 before the Finals. He averaged 9.3 points on 32.7% shooting, 46.0% TS against Cleveland, and went 1-6 for 4 points, 0 rebounds, 1 assist in the deciding Game 7. If Boston needed Allen to produce, they never would have made it to the Finals. If Miller sucked, the Pacers lost. Allen could suck and have a Hall of Fame teammate score 41 to bail him out. If the Celtics lose that series, Allen gets crucified. But since they won and Allen actually decided to show up in the Finals, the ring erases his previous suckage from everyone's memories.[/LIST]
[LIST]I've seen people mention Allen's record 8-11 three-point shooting in Game 2 of the 2010 NBA Finals, yet neglect to mention than Allen immediately followed it by going 0-13, and shot 31.4% from the floor, 13.3% from three for the entire series excluding that one game. That was a horrible series, not one isolated moment. Game 2 was the aberration, and Games 1, 3-7 were the norm.[/LIST]
[LIST]Everyone talked about Game 6 of the 2009 first round playoff matchup between the Boston Celtics and Chicago Bulls, in which Allen scored 51 points on 18-for-32 shooting from the floor, 9 of 18 from downtown in a 128-127 triple-overtime loss, but in the second round Allen proceeded to average 13.1 points on 34.4% shooting from the floor, 19.0% from beyond the arc and 45.2% TS.[/LIST]

No one ever mentions Allen's streakiness and disappearing acts. People have a guy and emphasize low moments of whomever their guy is pitted against while not saying a word about their chosen guy's low moments. People are prone to only telling one side of the story. I'd just like to see people who are prone to do this tell both sides, but I know that's too much to ask for on the internet.

I'm not saying allen hasn't had any low moments...its just that ppl always seem to forget reggie did too...theres this perception that reggie never failed in crunch time

[Boston C's]

Reggie was a better post-season player.

Even though Ray Allen could do more and had greater abilities primarily with the ball, you were better off using Ray the same way Reggie Miller was used which was off the ball.

Reggie was a better off-ball player, so he is the better player to me.

stupid reasoning to say that someone is better because of one attribute that is highly questionable...allen was still better at every other facet of the game of basketball

[Boston C's]

Hate to do this again but all those advantages statswise that you gave ray allen are all minimal that its hardly worth a mention for most players. Ray Allen outrebounds him by a single rebound, leads him by half an assist and outscores him by a single point on a significantly lower percentage.

Reggie Miller constantly outplaying Ray Allen on head to head matchups throughout their careers regular season and playoffs stats wise and in terms of wins is a better indication of who the better players is in my opinion.

Ray has an advantage in offensive versatility and ballhandling while Millers edge is being a superior leader and more efficient scorer and intangibles. It all boils down to what skills do you value more in picking between the two.

In regards to his inability to create his own shot, Reggie Miller has a very underrated face up game with all the jab steps and stepbacks he does off the catch of the ball. He can certainly put the ball down the floor off the pumpfake going all the way to the rim or shooting a runner/floater. Reggie in his athletic prime dribbled the ball more and attacked the basket more frequently. I think he focused on his off the ball skills much more when he got older and on the arrival of mark jackson.

Reggie did have a lot of horrible moments in the playoffs but so did Ray so I dont know why you felt the need to mention it.

While I dont deny that Ray Allen is one of the best shooters ever its odd that a player of his caliber and superior athleticism and skills never shot over 50% in 17 years while many less heralded shooters have done it multiple times.

I have engaged in this argument a few times and it still bothers me when people overstate ones advantages over the other. To me this matchup is basically a wash and it all depends on a persons preferred style of play.

all of the things you mentioned about reggie I won't take away from you...sure when he was younger he may have had an underrated faceup game but honestly for anyone who has seriously watched basketball they know that ray allen could literally do everything better then reggie miller...you don't need stats to tell you that (even though they point it out) you would know that allen was a better ball handler....allen was a better rebounder, allen was a better scorer, etc...those things should be pretty much understood...now if you want to compare head to head matchups thats cool too but most of those matchups were with when ray was not even in his prime but a young rookie going against a prime reggie miller

[Boston C's]

FWIW, Ray Allen was never the #1 guy like Reggie was for his squad. Reggie Miller was the best player on a team that took Mj and the Bulls to a game 7....
we all know how rare that was.

you know ray allen was playing basketball before he got to boston right?

I mean I know seattle and milwaukee are small markets but damn

[Reggie43]

all of the things you mentioned about reggie I won't take away from you...sure when he was younger he may have had an underrated faceup game but honestly for anyone who has seriously watched basketball they know that ray allen could literally do everything better then reggie miller...you don't need stats to tell you that (even though they point it out) you would know that allen was a better ball handler....allen was a better rebounder, allen was a better scorer, etc...those things should be pretty much understood...now if you want to compare head to head matchups thats cool too but most of those matchups were with when ray was not even in his prime but a young rookie going against a prime reggie miller

In terms of scoring the ball I think efficiency matters and Reggie certainly did that better than Ray. It is what seperates the all time greats like Allen Iverson(43%) Kobe Bryant(45%) and Michael Jordan(50%) from each other.

Those head to head matchups mostly span from the ages of 21-27 for ray and 31-37 for miller which seems fair to me because while you contend that Miller played Allen as a rookie he also played Reggie way past his prime which evens it out. Some would even give the advantage to Allen because he was in his athletic prime as opposed to Miller who had a ton of milage by then

[HiphopRelated]

you know ray allen was playing basketball before he got to boston right?

I mean I know seattle and milwaukee are small markets but damn

especially since prime ray could score in the mid 20s

[Boston C's]

In terms of scoring the ball I think efficiency matters and Reggie certainly did that better than Ray. It is what seperates the all time greats like Allen Iverson(43%) Kobe Bryant(45%) and Michael Jordan(50%) from each other.

Those head to head matchups mostly span from the ages of 21-27 for ray and 31-37 for miller which seems fair to me because while you contend that Miller played Allen as a rookie he also played Reggie way past his prime which evens it out. Some would even give the advantage to Allen because he was in his athletic prime as opposed to Miller who had a ton of milage by then

I guess thats fair...but when the matchups start hitting in the yr 2000 and upward Allen seems to have an advantage over reggie...and the overall numbers when you look at it are pretty even with reggie scoring a bit more and allen assisting and rebounding a bit more

[Electric Slide]

stupid reasoning to say that someone is better because of one attribute that is highly questionable...allen was still better at every other facet of the game of basketball

Seeing that you were better off not having Ray do any of those things, I don't see why those skills are even relevant.

Reggie was a better off-ball player pretty easily and he was easily a better playoff performer. Ray was a massive underachiever as a playoff performer in Boston which was his best years of winning a title.

[secund2nun]

Ray easily. Reggie gets overrated.

[Goldrush25]

Now that I think about it, I don't know one area of the game in which Reggie Miller is superior to Ray Allen.

[vinsanity2756]

I'd pick reggie. I've seen them both play from the mid 90's through 2000 and so on. Imo reggie was a bit smarter than ray, coming off screens. He could mislead the defense like a boss. Reggie Miller is the most clutch players I have ever seen, especially in the playoffs. I admit ray allen was more athletic in his bucks and sonics days, but the level of play in the playoffs is the difference to me. Reggie got in the head of opponents, he had that killer instinct like MJ. Ray never really was a trash talker, he hit his share of clutch shots though (and he probably will hit a couple more when it's all said and done) but mentally I give reggie a huge edge.

[Boston C's]

Seeing that you were better off not having Ray do any of those things, I don't see why those skills are even relevant.

Reggie was a better off-ball player pretty easily and he was easily a better playoff performer. Ray was a massive underachiever as a playoff performer in Boston which was his best years of winning a title.

While thats partly true you forget to look at the yrs he was in the playoffs with the bucks and sonics...ray ALWAYS raised his game and theres no denying that but I'm not surprised you didn't know that seeing as some ppl here didn't know ray played basketball before he was on the celtics

and even in boston ray has played well in some of the playoffs he was on Boston...hes had many memorable games (51 points, nba finals record for most 3's in a game/series, had a great 08 finals, many gamewinners, etc)

and in his prime ray was doing everything...hell he ran point for most of the yr in 2004 with seattle for crying out loud...the pacers wouldn't ever think of asking reggie to run point

[SilkkTheShocker]

Im going with Reggie. He had a lot more success as the man of his teams. But its hilarious seeing Jordan homers prop up Reggie so much

[Boston C's]

Now that I think about it, I don't know one area of the game in which Reggie Miller is superior to Ray Allen.

this/thread

if ppl wanna use reggies intangibles that greatly then we might as well put him above guys like joe dumars, sam jones, sidney moncrief, hell freakin put him above george gervin too while were at it

think of it this way...you put reggie against tracy mcgrady or grant hill and in terms of careers you would say reggie is better...but nobody in their right mind would take reggie over tracy or hill as players

this comparison between reggie and ray is worse because not only does ray have the better career but he also was a better player then reggie as well