How a 37 year old 6-6 205lb shooting guard should retire:

[SexSymbol]

This is havlicek's 16th season.
Kobe in his 16th season was averaging 28-5-5
And 27-6-6 a year after that. The best 17th year out of any player ever

[La Frescobaldi]

This is havlicek's 16th season.
Kobe in his 16th season was averaging 28-5-5
And 27-6-6 a year after that. The best 17th year out of any player ever

Havlicek minutes 46471
Bryant minutes 47110

Havlicek was always known as a ruthless chucker... so is Bryant.

They both had great defense in their days. I'd give the nod to Havlicek who was absolutely feared by the league in transition defense + he always played defense, even in blowouts.

Bryant has 1700 points from 3 which didn't exist in Hondo's days.

They both had the ability to dominate the complete court and take over games for entire quarters and halves at a time.

Bryant had far greater leaping ability and quickness, Havlicek had far greater stamina - he always played at the same level and speed after 45 minutes or in overtime as he showed after 10 minutes.

Couldn't give an edge in basketball IQ - both elite.

Kobe was vastly the better shooter and scorer, Havlicek the better team player who made sure the Celtics stayed in rhythm and in offense.
Pure scoring ability - Kobe by galaxies.
Leadership - Havlicek by light-years.

It's a strange thing to look back at, but these guys had quite a few similarities tbh. Havlicek didn't have a dazzling game style like Kobe, he was brutal and remorseless and one of the fiercest competitors ever seen.
Great respect to both these all-time giants of hoops!!

[SexSymbol]

Havlicek minutes 46471
Bryant minutes 47110

Havlicek was always known as a ruthless chucker... so is Bryant.

They both had great defense in their days. I'd give the nod to Havlicek who was absolutely feared by the league in transition defense + he always played defense, even in blowouts.

Bryant has 1700 points from 3 which didn't exist in Hondo's days.

They both had the ability to dominate the complete court and take over games for entire quarters and halves at a time.

Bryant had far greater leaping ability and quickness, Havlicek had far greater stamina - he always played at the same level and speed after 45 minutes or in overtime as he showed after 10 minutes.

Couldn't give an edge in basketball IQ - both elite.

Kobe was vastly the better shooter and scorer, Havlicek the better team player who made sure the Celtics stayed in rhythm and in offense.
Pure scoring ability - Kobe by galaxies.
Leadership - Havlicek by light-years.

It's a strange thing to look back at, but these guys had quite a few similarities tbh. Havlicek didn't have a dazzling game style like Kobe, he was brutal and remorseless and one of the fiercest competitors ever seen.
Great respect to both these all-time giants of hoops!!

That leadership thing is just bullshit, Havlicek, for the better part of his career, wasn't even a leader of his team, so yeah.
And it's very arguable that Havlicek was a better team player, I don't really get this assumption or why you think that.
That defense thing is bullshit too, even the best defender take off plays once in a while, and you weren't there to witness his play, so why make up things?
Great player, I rank him higher than most people here, but Kobe is just miles ahead of him

[oarabbus]

That leadership thing is just bullshit, Havlicek, for the better part of his career, wasn't even a leader of his team, so yeah.
And it's very arguable that Havlicek was a better team player, I don't really get this assumption or why you think that.
That defense thing is bullshit too, even the best defender take off plays once in a while, and you weren't there to witness his play, so why make up things?
Great player, I rank him higher than most people here, but Kobe is just miles ahead of him

8 > 5 rings

Shaq carried Kobe more than Russell carried anyone

[SexSymbol]

8 > 5 rings

Shaq carried Kobe more than Russell carried anyone

Russell is arguably the greatest player of all time.
8 rings in that era is practically the same as 5 in this era if not less impressive.

[La Frescobaldi]

That leadership thing is just bullshit, Havlicek, for the better part of his career, wasn't even a leader of his team, so yeah.
And it's very arguable that Havlicek was a better team player, I don't really get this assumption or why you think that.
That defense thing is bullshit too, even the best defender take off plays once in a while, and you weren't there to witness his play, so why make up things?
Great player, I rank him higher than most people here, but Kobe is just miles ahead of him

I saw hundred of Celtics games, my friend. Sat bleachers for lots of em. Hondo was Captain of the Celtics for long long time. Leadership? He had it down to his fingertips, always did. Even in the early days, coming off the bench, you could see the Celtics defense get instantly stronger, the fast break would increase, and their offensive sets would run smoother. After '67 he was the best player on those Boston teams for a lot of years.

Go back and look at film of the Phil Jackson Lakers to see what I'm talking about. Kobe broke the triangle year after year, it was Fisher who ran those offenses. Havlicek would correct guys out on the court, like Kobe, but he didn't create the animosity. There was no Smush Parker type disliking when it came to Havlicek. Those Celtics loved him, one and all.

[SexSymbol]

I saw hundred of Celtics games, my friend. Sat bleachers for lots of em. Hondo was Captain of the Celtics for long long time. Leadership? He had it down to his fingertips, always did. Even in the early days, coming off the bench, you could see the Celtics defense get instantly stronger, the fast break would increase, and their offensive sets would run smoother. After '67 he was the best player on those Boston teams for a lot of years.

Go back and look at film of the Phil Jackson Lakers to see what I'm talking about. Kobe broke the triangle year after year, it was Fisher who ran those offenses. Havlicek would correct guys out on the court, like Kobe, but he didn't create the animosity. There was no Smush Parker type disliking when it came to Havlicek. Those Celtics loved him, one and all.

You can't win by playing triangle all the time, 50 percent of the time it doesn't workout.
Kobe was never actually a big part of the triangle and more of a bail-out scorer when the triangle didn't work, ESPECIALLY in 08-10 era.

You have your nostalgia goggles on, I'm not gonna discredit your opinion in any way, ok you say you saw him, that's good. I've watched half of Kobe's career too, and every time he stepped on the court before his achilles injury he would increase the level of play from the Lakers. This is an opinion, it's not a fact.
Kobe is a great leader.

[La Frescobaldi]

You can't win by playing triangle all the time, 50 percent of the time it doesn't workout.
Kobe was never actually a big part of the triangle and more of a bail-out scorer when the triangle didn't work, ESPECIALLY in 08-10 era.

You have your nostalgia goggles on, I'm not gonna discredit your opinion in any way, ok you say you saw him, that's good. I've watched half of Kobe's career too, and every time he stepped on the court before his achilles injury he would increase the level of play from the Lakers. This is an opinion, it's not a fact.
Kobe is a great leader.

He's a great ball player, but his leadership has always been a weakness. Always. Bryant's been very divisive throughout his career; from the national headline news Shaq blowup - and I mean on CBS and NBC news, not just the sports channels - to the dozens of role players hating his guts to Pau Gasol and Bynum exploding in public over Kobe Bryant.

If you saw half his career that means you didn't even see the 3Peat Lakers???!!! lmao I was a Lakers fan for 40 years.

I do have nostalgia, but believe me not for John Havlicek. He was Enemy #1 from Day #1 for all my teams. Him and Sam Jones destroyed everybody, year after year and when Cowens showed up it was just as bad.
Ask Julius Erving or Kareem or Oscar or West about Havlicek.

[SexSymbol]

He's a great ball player, but his leadership has always been a weakness. Always. Bryant's been very divisive throughout his career; from the national headline news Shaq blowup - and I mean on CBS and NBC news, not just the sports channels - to the dozens of role players hating his guts to Pau Gasol and Bynum exploding in public over Kobe Bryant.

If you saw half his career that means you didn't even see the 3Peat Lakers???!!! lmao I was a Lakers fan for 40 years.

I do have nostalgia, but believe me not for John Havlicek. He was Enemy #1 from Day #1 for all my teams. Him and Sam Jones destroyed everybody, year after year and when Cowens showed up it was just as bad.
Ask Julius Erving or Kareem or Oscar about Havlicek.

Pau gasol never "exploded" over Kobe, he always talks with profound respect and refers to him as a great friend and teammate. And countless people do, including recently Caron Butler.
Kobe actually, was ten times the leader that shaq was, that's the point, Kobe set an example of hard work and toughness. He called out shaq on being out of shape and in that way motivated him. Shaq would probably be ringless or with one ring had it not been for Kobe's leadership.
Good leadership isn't about smiles and laughs and having a good time with your teammates. You need to know when to push what buttons, and Kobe knew.

The role player thing is just funny, you take someone like smush, a lazy piece of talent that didn't put in the work to shape that talent out and was out of the league soon after.
Or are you talking about him not talking to certain players until they deserve it? Duncan does exactly the same, does that make him a bad leader?

[JellyBean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vekb4RhplI

29 points, 8 assists, 4 rebounds

Coming off of a season of:
16.1ppg (44.9fg%, 85.5ft%), 4rpg, 4apg, 1.1 steals

Kobe's gotta fight to get back on track with his field goal percentage but he can still retire at the end of the season gracefully like that with his current statlines as long as he starts taking smarter shots.

[TheBigVeto]

Hondo is 2nd GOAT SG after Jordan dawg. Can't compare him with scrub like Kobe.

[La Frescobaldi]

Pau gasol never "exploded" over Kobe, he always talks with profound respect and refers to him as a great friend and teammate. And countless people do, including recently Caron Butler.
Kobe actually, was ten times the leader that shaq was, that's the point, Kobe set an example of hard work and toughness. He called out shaq on being out of shape and in that way motivated him. Shaq would probably be ringless or with one ring had it not been for Kobe's leadership.
Good leadership isn't about smiles and laughs and having a good time with your teammates. You need to know when to push what buttons, and Kobe knew.

The role player thing is just funny, you take someone like smush, a lazy piece of talent that didn't put in the work to shape that talent out and was out of the league soon after.
Or are you talking about him not talking to certain players until they deserve it? Duncan does exactly the same, does that make him a bad leader?

lolol
good luck to you, man.

[tmacattack33]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vekb4RhplI

29 points, 8 assists, 4 rebounds

Coming off of a season of:
16.1ppg (44.9fg%, 85.5ft%), 4rpg, 4apg, 1.1 steals

Kobe's gotta fight to get back on track with his field goal percentage but he can still retire at the end of the season gracefully like that with his current statlines as long as he starts taking smarter shots.

Even at his peak, Kobe's shot selection was questionable. Not sure how you could expect it to randomly get better in his 17th season. I don't think it's as easy as a decision he can make right before a game starts.

It's a skill...because if you tell a player with bad shot selection to stop shooting bad shots, they will then pass up some good shots as well, because they don't know the difference in the heat of the moment. I mean after the game and in the filmroom, Kobe (and Melo...Westbrook...Iverson...anyone with bad shot selection) can easily see which shots are bad. But in the middle of the game at full-speed, they don't know.