Jefferson: Kobe was great but Lebron's never been the second best player on his team

[MoBe1Kanobi]

It's not so much as they don't count, they just don't count as much as the guys who won as the man. Otherwise Pippen would technically have "more" rings than Kobe right? Lebron won more rings as the man than Kobe did.

LeBron had not only better teammates as the "man", he also had much more time than Kobe to build up his own personal dynasty catered around his needs compared to Kobe who was only given from 2004-2005 through 2013 to win his two titles as the man. LeBrons been given 16 yrs with to win titles as the man and only won 3 compared to Kobe who was only given 9 yrs to win as the man and he won 2, only 1 less championship in basically half the attempts as the man.

If you want to take out his titles with Shaq then you can't just dismiss his first 8 seasons as failed attempts to win as the man. Kobe was good enough to be a title leader best player on a title team since about 2001. He just had the bad luck of playing with the most dominant player of all time, literally the only person who could have taken away credit from him.

[superduper]

Look out guys Kobe had Pau mutha****ing GASSHOLE!!!

[Cocaine80s]

We

[Mr Feeny]

LeBron had not only better teammates as the "man", he also had much more time than Kobe to build up his own personal dynasty catered around his needs compared to Kobe who was only given from 2004-2005 through 2013 to win his two titles as the man. LeBrons been given 16 yrs with to win titles as the man and only won 3 compared to Kobe who was only given 9 yrs to win as the man and he won 2, only 1 less championship in basically half the attempts as the man.

If you want to take out his titles with Shaq then you can't just dismiss his first 8 seasons as failed attempts to win as the man. Kobe was good enough to be a title leader best player on a title team since about 2001. He just had the bad luck of playing with the most dominant player of all time, literally the only person who could have taken away credit from him.

Not while Shaq and Duncan were in their primes,he wasn't. Kobe always needed the most dominant front court in basketball to win, because he needs his team to dominate the boards. Because he's woefully inefficienct when it counts -in the finals.

If he were on another team and taking on Duncan and Shaq as a first option, he'd get swept every single time. Because he wouldn't have the most dominant front court in the league.

[superduper]

We’re still arguing Lebron and Kobe in 2019? Lebron surpassed him in 2013, now he’s defending his Goat throne with Jordan

Given that 90% of people who have touched an NBA court still have Kobe over Bran... nah

Bran will never remotely be as respected as much as Kobe was/is and this burns Bran stans up inside.

[LAmbruh]

[QUOTE=Cocaine80s]We

[3ball]

It's actually scary when you think of how many rings 19yo Lebron would have accomplished with 1998-2005 Shaq

No it isn't because we've already seen "not 6, not 7" expectations turn into 2/4

And during his first 6 playoff runs, Lebron had a lot of problems either statistically or mentally in the 2007 Playoffs (22 on 36% in Finals), 2008 Playoffs (26 on 35% in ECSF), 2010 Playoffs (questionable mentally vs Celts), 2011 Playoffs (goat choke).. And Shaq wasn't much better with back-to-back sweep losses to Utah in 97' and 98'

So young Lebron and Shaq would be one of the biggest disappointments in history - you'd have 2 guys with shaky clutch and FT's down the stretch of games - 2 guys that always needed all-world scorers as sidekicks now have each other ... And we know that young lebron had more problems with his jumper than Giannis (17% on jumpers in 07' Finals vs 23% for Giannis vs 19' Raptors)

[Manny98]

Anthony Davis is better as of right now.

You should ban yourself for saying that

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

04 Big Z
11 Wade
current AD

fake news Rich

[MoBe1Kanobi]

Not while Shaq and Duncan were in their primes,he wasn't. Kobe always needed the most dominant front court in basketball to win, because he needs his team to dominate the boards. Because he's woefully inefficienct when it counts -in the finals.

If he were on another team and taking on Duncan and Shaq as a first option, he'd get swept every single time. Because he wouldn't have the most dominant front court in the league.

Prime Kobe needs: dominant frontcourt + disciplined role players
Prime LeBron needs: dominant wing + dominant stretch big + shooters
Prime Shaq needs: dominant wing + disciplined role players

Based on these needs you can see who makes it the easiest to win a title and the results are shown below:

Prime Kobe needs met = 5 titles, 2 titles as the undisputed man in only 9 seasons
Prime LeBron needs met = 3 titles in 16 seasons as the man
Prime Shaq needs met = 4 titles, 3 titles as the man in 13 seasons

Statistically there is no argument. The analytics posted above clearly demonstrate that not only is Kobe the most efficient winner of these three, he's also the easiest to build around despite his "shotjacker" reputation. Star players went out their way to avoid playing with him and he STILL couldn't be stopped from title collection

[RRR3]

Kobetards are just mindnumbingly stupid.

[Doranku]

RJ is biased from all those team shower sessions with LeBron in Cleveland.

[red1]

look at these champions right here. RJ deserves it, he was great for the nets even though that's a trash franchise right there.

[3ball]

[COLOR="Navy"]Prime Kobe needs: dominant frontcourt + disciplined role players
Prime LeBron needs: dominant wing + dominant stretch big + shooters[/COLOR]

This is exactly true

That's why Kobe is better - he's easier to build around because his superior scoring versatility fits with more player types, so his teams have higher ceilings/brand than Lebron's spot-up shooting teams.. Even when Lebron has good help, he doesn't yield the best teams, whereas Kobe did

[superduper]

look at these champions right here. RJ deserves it, he was great for the nets even though that's a trash franchise right there.

Man, RJ and Frye straight up carried some games.

Amazing players and amazing people