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04-16-2013, 03:51 PM
#166
NBA Legend
Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Originally Posted by KG215
I see you still haven't learned or gotten over your old ways, despite claiming many times you're not the same poster you use to be.
What did i do wrong? I placed all the NBA accolades, you may dismiss whichever you want.... but please if you cant be respectful, cultivated and give your 2 cents on this topic then please stay of my face, i really had enough of your attitude...
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04-16-2013, 03:52 PM
#167
I am a love machine
Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Originally Posted by pauk
What did i do wrong? I placed all the NBA accolades, you may dismiss whichever you want.... but please if you cant be respectful, cultivated and give your 2 cents on this topic then please stay of my face, i really had enough of your attitude...
Did you mention how many times he has choked or how he had to go to a team with 2 other superstars on to even sniff a ring.
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04-16-2013, 03:55 PM
#168
NBA Legend
Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Just depends on if you mean basketball or resume. Lebron has a better resume already than most legends. Hes gonna blow Hakeems away.
Id still rather have Hakeem on my team. All the rest is pretty whatever to me in situations like this where I have seen the entire career of both sides. Im not guessing like I am with some older players.
I know what Hakeem could do...and Lebron. Not taking Lebron. Its not like....5 levels apart. But its not something id have to look at the team first either.
Id take Hakeem every time. Too disruptive on defense with the right mix of skill and aggression on offense.
If Lebron more often played the way hes capable of id take him. Id take out to prove a point Lebron over Hakeem. I wouldnt take average Lebron though.
Sure I understand, especially in this weak Center era i think most would have a very tough time turning down Hakeem, even if the other choice was Jordan....
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04-16-2013, 03:56 PM
#169
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
I might just lock it right now to be a dick.
Can you talk about why "defensive impact" was part of your reason with Hakeem...but then said you wouldn't take him over Bird/Magic every time...but would over Lebron.
Seems like those don't go hand in hand.
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04-16-2013, 03:56 PM
#170
NBA Legend
Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Originally Posted by daj0264
Did you mention how many times he has choked or how he had to go to a team with 2 other superstars on to even sniff a ring.
Man... these April 2013 posters..
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04-16-2013, 03:57 PM
#171
I am a love machine
Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Originally Posted by pauk
Man... these April 2013 posters..
I know we're good but thanks for the compliment.
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04-16-2013, 03:57 PM
#172
7-time NBA All-Star
Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Originally Posted by pauk
What did i do wrong? I placed all the NBA accolades, you may dismiss whichever you want.... but please if you cant be respectful, cultivated and give your 2 cents on this topic then please stay off my face, i really had enough of your attitude...
Why, then, did you feel the need to include POTM, and something as subjective as best player? We've been over the POTM thing countless times before. Not only is it fairly meaningless, using it to do a side-by-side resume comparison of two players from different eras when the award wasn't the same makes zero sense.
And stay off your face? I apologize for that...I guess. You said you weren't going to be the same type of LeBron d***riding poster you used to be. You've posted it numerous times and even sent me some PM's about it awhile back. You relapsed big time with your 1,500 word essay over a a blocked shot if a damn All-Star game.
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04-16-2013, 04:01 PM
#173
Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Can you talk about why "defensive impact" was part of your reason with Hakeem...but then said you wouldn't take him over Bird/Magic every time...but would over Lebron.
Seems like those don't go hand in hand.
Not necessarily, he might just think that Bird and Magic were noticeably better than Lebron offensively. Or that those 2 along with Hakeem having consistently better performances in the playoffs makes a difference.
I don't care which side of the argument anyone's on, but those things could explain someone taking Hakeem over Lebron, but not Bird and Magic.
As I said, I have Hakeem over Lebron and it will probably remain that way unless Lebron gets even better than he is now, but don't think it's a big enough gap for picking either to be unreasonable. Actually, I'd probably take Hakeem over all 3, in large part due to his play at both ends.
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04-16-2013, 04:01 PM
#174
Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Discussions involving Hakeem always tend to focus on just his title runs. Of course he was a flashy scorer and great defender, but look at how his teams performed:
48 wins, 1st round exit
51, finals
42 2nd round
46 1st round
45 1st
41 1st
52 1st
42 missed playoffs
55 2nd round
58 champions
47 champions
48 2nd round (swept)
57 WCF
41 1st round
31-19 1st
was a role player afterwards.
That looks considerably more like Kevin Garnett than Lebron James. 6 1st round exits as a #1 option, missed playoffs once. 4 out of 15 years WCF or better.
That's not necessarily a terrible resum
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04-16-2013, 04:04 PM
#175
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
Not necessarily, he might just think that Bird and Magic were noticeably better than Lebron offensively. Or that those 2 along with Hakeem having consistently better performances in the playoffs makes a difference.
I don't care which side of the argument anyone's on, but those things could explain someone taking Hakeem over Lebron, but not Bird and Magic.
As I said, I have Hakeem over Lebron and it will probably remain that way unless Lebron gets even better than he is now, but don't think it's a big enough gap for picking either to be unreasonable. Actually, I'd probably take Hakeem over all 3, in large part due to his play at both ends.
I'm fine, with any reasoning...as long as it stays consistent.
I just think you get into a very difficult area in taking Hakeem every time over Lebron...but not Bird/Magic. Reasons need to be given for that reasoning.
And defense and playoff performances (not saying those are the reasons given) are obviously not valid.
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04-16-2013, 04:06 PM
#176
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=Brunch@Five]Discussions involving Hakeem always tend to focus on just his title runs. Of course he was a flashy scorer and great defender, but look at how his teams performed:
48 wins, 1st round exit
51, finals
42 2nd round
46 1st round
45 1st
41 1st
52 1st
42 missed playoffs
55 2nd round
58 champions
47 champions
48 2nd round (swept)
57 WCF
41 1st round
31-19 1st
was a role player afterwards.
That looks considerably more like Kevin Garnett than Lebron James. 6 1st round exits as a #1 option, missed playoffs once. 4 out of 15 years WCF or better.
That's not necessarily a terrible resum
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04-16-2013, 04:13 PM
#177
Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
It's hard with Hakeem, because in 94 and 95 he proved able to do stuff that very few NBA players in the history of the game have been able to do. Stuff that Lebron never did....now, that doesn't mean Hakeem wins just off that...as MJ never won with teams like that either...but it matters.
So it's hard to talk about all the playoff first round losses and such...when you have 94 and 95 right in front of you.
well it does matter if we're not talking about players' primes only.
When current players are concerned, we never omit their "dark years", i.e. KG and TMac not getting past the 1st round, Dirk's and LeBron's playoff "failures", Kobes early post-Shaq years. Because we have seen all those years.
Who here actually saw DRob, Ewing, Shaq and Hakeem pre 95?
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04-16-2013, 04:16 PM
#178
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Originally Posted by Brunch@Five
well it does matter if we're not talking about players' primes only.
When current players are concerned, we never omit their "dark years", i.e. KG and TMac not getting past the 1st round, Dirk's and LeBron's playoff "failures", Kobes early post-Shaq years. Because we have seen all those years.
Who here actually saw DRob, Ewing, Shaq and Hakeem pre 95?
Well, the problem is that Hakeem never had a moment like Lebron in 11. Hakeem played on a lot of poor teams and average teams.
So while everything matters, maybe it was his teams holding him back most of the time.
Where in the case of Lebron in 11...it was his play. Huge difference in my opinion.
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04-16-2013, 04:20 PM
#179
NBA Legend
Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
Originally Posted by KG215
Why, then, did you feel the need to include POTM, and something as subjective as best player? We've been over the POTM thing countless times before. Not only is it fairly meaningless, using it to do a side-by-side resume comparison of two players from different eras when the award wasn't the same makes zero sense.
You dont feel the same way about All-Star MVP or anything else?
Here is what you missed about POTM which i said earlier:
"Having more POTM than somebody else in theory is kindof useless.... but should not be disregarded because this tells a very important story/context...
Because the POTM is the same criteria as MVP & given out by the same establishment, a player who had many more POTM is a player who has been the MVP of the month (which is not a very short time) many more times...... a player who has won the most POTM in a season usually ends up with the MVP aswell......... a player who has won the more POTMs for his career has therefore probably ended up with more MVPs aswell......
In Lebrons case this story is very correct....
...and if that player (Lebron) has many more MVPs that means that player has been a MORE VALUABLE PLAYER many more years & months than the player compared to (Hakeem)........ which hints at the probability of Lebron being a more impactful player than Hakeem was.... at least for a longer time.... for you to win the MVP your productiveness/individual talent/skill needs to translate to more TEAM SUCCESS/WINS than anybody else.....
MVP is a very important award.... and to get it you will need to unfortunately be POTM in that season many times, no matter how useless it is it still leads you towards the award which is not so useless."
And stay off your face? I apologize for that...I guess. You said you weren't going to be the same type of LeBron d***riding poster you used to be.
No, i said i was not gona clown/troll like i did long time ago.... but the so called Lebron "***riding" will remain as long as he plays the way he does, i love great basketball and especially when that player plays it the right way.... With that being said, i love Hakeem aswell...
I am sorry but i dont think its a crime to like Lebron or any other player.... as long as you are coherent, factual, logical and objective in your assumptions then its no problem whatsoever.....
After seeing so many posters here claiming "Its not even close between Lebron & Hakeem" i thought i would retaliate with this thread and discuss this.... in ISH you would usually be called a Lebron dickrider (feeling hit?), a Lebron stan, whatever even if you by just simple logic, objectivity and facts proved why that claim is not actually true......... like i did here...
I am absolutely getting tired of getting called a Lebron ***rider when the truth is i am actually talking to mostly Lebron haters (fans who are in denial and do/say anything to downplay him and overrated anybody who is compared).... look around...
Last edited by pauk; 04-16-2013 at 04:25 PM.
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04-16-2013, 04:26 PM
#180
Re: Lebron vs Hakeem.
[QUOTE=Brunch@Five]Discussions involving Hakeem always tend to focus on just his title runs. Of course he was a flashy scorer and great defender, but look at how his teams performed:
48 wins, 1st round exit
51, finals
42 2nd round
46 1st round
45 1st
41 1st
52 1st
42 missed playoffs
55 2nd round
58 champions
47 champions
48 2nd round (swept)
57 WCF
41 1st round
31-19 1st
was a role player afterwards.
That looks considerably more like Kevin Garnett than Lebron James. 6 1st round exits as a #1 option, missed playoffs once. 4 out of 15 years WCF or better.
That's not necessarily a terrible resum
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