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Old 08-16-2007, 02:03 PM   #16
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Default Re: How arguable is it that Paul Pierce has been a top 10 player in the league...

I would say it is reasonably arguable.
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Old 08-16-2007, 02:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: How arguable is it that Paul Pierce has been a top 10 player in the league...

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I would say it is reasonably arguable.

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Old 08-16-2007, 03:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: How arguable is it that Paul Pierce has been a top 10 player in the league...

I hate these posts because basketball fans live by the following motto: when in doubt, NOT Pierce.

Unless Pierce is miles and miles ahead of a certain player, he will always, always get the short end of the stick.

For example I would love to hear a detailed argument for why Arenas is better than Pierce. I mean, I've made the argument- but only that they're equal as of now. Here's a hint. There is none. And deep down we all know it. Yet we never choose Pierce when we have to pick one, why? Because it breaks the Golden Rule: when in doubt, NOT Pierce.

What about Carmelo Anthony? There are no numbers to choose as evidence. The 2 players have similar games, with Melo more post-oriented and Pierce more predisposed to perimiter isolations and off-ball movement. Melo's a better scorer but Pierce is better at more things and a more proven reliable player. This is a very arguable comparison that could go either way. Yet it NEVER goes Pierce's way does it? These threads come up every few months- where does Pierce rank? And Melo is always on the list of guys who are DEFINITELY better.

Listen- the list of players who are definitely better than Pierce is very, very small. After the top 5 or 7 or so, it gets to the point where you could choose anyone and it wouldn't make much of a difference. Pierce has a legitimate argument from being anywhere between just outside of the top 15 and 7th best in the league. But how many people make the stretch and put him at 7th vs. the people who underrate him and put him on the fringe of the top 15?

The 6 best players in the league are Tim Duncan, Lebron James, Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Dirk Nowitzki and Dwyane Wade. After those six, is there anybody you can definitively, in every case put ahead of Paul Pierce? If you think about it there really isn't. Pierce is right there in every comparison you'll make, causing problems for your preconceptions.

This question could be taken 2 ways:

1. Was Pierce a top 10 player in each of the 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, and 2003 seasons?

2. Taking the last 5 seasons holistically into account, was Pierce among its 10 best performers?

I think that Pierce is hanging around the bottom half of the top 10 for every single instance I mentioned above.
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Old 08-16-2007, 04:23 PM   #19
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Default Re: How arguable is it that Paul Pierce has been a top 10 player in the league...

Give me a choice between Paul Pierce over the last five years versus Carmelo Anthony or Amare Stoudemire I go with one of the latter.
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Old 08-16-2007, 04:37 PM   #20
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Default Re: How arguable is it that Paul Pierce has been a top 10 player in the league...

Right now, Pierce is more like a top 15 player. In 2002 or 2003, he was a top ten player. Like others mentioned, Pierce isn't as athletic or more skilled like some the other All-Stars in the league. This also makes him more and more underrated. Also, Pierce makes some nice dunks and game winning shots from time to time, but they are completely overshadowed by more popular players like Dwyane Wade or Dirk Nowitzki.
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Old 08-16-2007, 07:34 PM   #21
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Default Re: How arguable is it that Paul Pierce has been a top 10 player in the league...

I think the argument should be made on a position basis. I'd call him a top 10 small forward without hesitation.
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Old 08-16-2007, 07:42 PM   #22
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Default Re: How arguable is it that Paul Pierce has been a top 10 player in the league...

Fans cant see him as top 10 because the team success simply isnt there. If he was on a winner say Dallas Mavs...ranking him top 10 wouldnt be so hard. Want proof? Elton Brand. He's in peoples top 10. I wonder why...cant be production because he produced prior to team success. But alas the team wins, he gets credit, he gets ranked higher. And thats not a bad thing/knock but it shows how the top 10, or these ranking lists can be. Same with AI...once Sixers looked like shyt he slid down rankings fast. Heck I bet he is now ranked in the 13-15 range as a Nugget. Why? How? He's producing and playing at a high level still.

It all depends what criteria is being used here. Is this straight skills, production? Then PP has an argument. I dont see how he is any less of a player than Tmac or Lebron even. Break all 3 down individually by skills...then at the end show me where the gap is wide.

Its Larry Brown fault for drafting Larry PeeeeeU's over Pierce. AI + PP = Championship!! Lock it up.
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Old 08-16-2007, 07:43 PM   #23
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Default Re: How arguable is it that Paul Pierce has been a top 10 player in the league...

I think he's better than Wade and Bron cos he can do everything they do, plus he plays defense without a big man. Although most people think that's crazy, cos apparently defense isn't worth anything.
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Old 08-16-2007, 07:55 PM   #24
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Default Re: How arguable is it that Paul Pierce has been a top 10 player in the league...

It's completely arguable. Paul Pierce has never made an All-NBA 1st or 2nd Team. He's only made 2 All-NBA 3rd Teams in the last 6 seasons.

He's made 5 All-Star appearances in the last 6 seasons, so it's fairly clear he's a top 24 player. He might be a top 15 player over the past 6 seasons with this reasoning and if you consider that not all positions are equally deep during this period.

Maybe you think the All-NBA Teams are way off, but either way, it's completely arguable, and the case for top 10 seems more difficult to make.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:07 PM   #25
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Default Re: How arguable is it that Paul Pierce has been a top 10 player in the league...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
Its Larry Brown fault for drafting Larry PeeeeeU's over Pierce. AI + PP = Championship!! Lock it up.

That would have been fun to watch...
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:09 PM   #26
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Default Re: How arguable is it that Paul Pierce has been a top 10 player in the league...

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
1. Was Pierce a top 10 player in each of the 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, and 2003 seasons?

2. Taking the last 5 seasons holistically into account, was Pierce among its 10 best performers?

I think that Pierce is hanging around the bottom half of the top 10 for every single instance I mentioned above.

I argued the second option... Taking the last 5 years as a whole, I believe that Pierce has been a top 10 player.
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Old 08-17-2007, 08:33 PM   #27
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Default Re: How arguable is it that Paul Pierce has been a top 10 player in the league...

There aren't definitely ten guys better than him over the last 5 years but becuz he's missed games and becuz he hasn't been able to lift his team outta mediocrity there are a lot of ties......

He's only been top ten in 2 of the last 5 years and even then he was tied with guys like JKidd etc.
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