Lebron's Plus/Minus Declines Significantly When Playing Alongside Talent

[3ball]

It's really interesting because Lebron did not maintain his Cleveland plus/minus levels when he played alongside greater talent in Miami.

Lebron was all they had in Cleveland, and his plus/minus figures were understandably high since the bottom fell out when he left the floor - for example, Lebron had a +871 plus/minus in 2009, so Cleveland was 871 points better when he was on the floor that year.

But when he went to Miami, his plus/minus was only 621, 474, 705 and 405 in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014, respectively...

So clearly, when playing with talent and other capable play-creators, Lebron can't find a way to add the same value as he does when playing with all stiffs.

Contrast that to the great Michael Jordan... He registered a +980 plus/minus in 1996, and another +817 in 1997, showing that he CAN find a way to maintain his value-add when playing with talent and other capable play-creators.

This contrast tells you everything you need to know about the difference in true versatility of each player's game.... Lebron's versatility works best on paper, but in reality he can't maintain his production while playing in whatever fashion (off-ball) allows talented teammates to play to their strengths - so since he can't maintain his production playing entirely off-ball, he simply doesn't play off-ball enough, which prevents talented teammates from playing to their strengths and hurts Lebron's ability to maintain his value-add when playing alongside them (talent).

Otoh, Jordan's true versatility allowed him to maintain his value-add while playing in whatever fashion allowed teammates to play to their strengths, which is why his value-add (plus/minus) did not drop off when playing alongside good players - his record +980 plus/minus in 1996 proves that.

Another shoulder shrug, because yet another stat proves Jordan is GOAT..
.

[Smoke117]

What is the point of this...I mean other than to deepthroat (throat anyway) Jordan's tiny member?

[buddha]

only kids 21 and under believe LeBron is better than MJ.

[RRR3]

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that most of us here don't already know Jordan was better than LeBron. If you can rectify this, it would probably keep you from feeling the need to spam the board with your agenda-fueled threads.

[iamgine]

It's really interesting because Lebron did not maintain his Cleveland plus/minus levels when he played alongside greater talent in Miami.

Lebron was all they had in Cleveland, and his plus/minus figures were understandably high since the bottom fell out when he left the floor - for example, Lebron had a +871 plus/minus in 2009, so Cleveland was 871 points better when he was on the floor that year.

But when he went to Miami, his plus/minus was only 621, 474, 705 and 405 in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014, respectively...

So clearly, when playing with talent and other capable play-creators, Lebron can't find a way to add the same value as he does when playing with all stiffs.

Contrast that to the great Michael Jordan... He registered a +980 plus/minus in 1996, and another +817 in 1997, showing that he CAN find a way to maintain his value-add when playing with talent and other capable play-creators.

This contrast tells you everything you need to know about the difference in true versatility of each player's game.... Lebron's versatility works best on paper, but in reality he can't maintain his production while playing in whatever fashion (off-ball) allows teammates to play to their strengths - so since he can't maintain his production playing entirely off-ball, he doesn't, which prevents his team from being as good as they could be... His inability to be the catalyst that can adapt to any situation hurts his ability to maintain his value-add (plus/minus) when playing alongside talent...

Otoh, Jordan's true versatility allowed him to maintain his value-add while playing in whatever fashion allowed teammates to play to their strengths, which is why his value-add (plus/minus) did not drop off when playing alongside good players - his record +980 plus/minus in 1996 proves that.

Another shoulder shrug, because yet another stat proves Jordan is GOAT..
.

Misleading argument. Cleveland and Bulls are the same in how both of them are built around Lebron and Jordan. If Jordan moved to another team that doesn't specifically build around him, his +- would drop too.

[3ball]

specifically build around him

Miami was built around LEbron... bosh turned into a floor-spreader for him and Wade had to play off-ball a ton.

[Warfan]

only kids 21 and under believe LeBron is better than MJ.

I truly think OP believes bron is as good as mj. There's no way he can constantly compare the two if he didnt believe bron was at least on mj's level. No one seriously says lebron is better or even on mj's level. Yet OP still continues to belabour the same point that no one even disagrees with.

[3ball]

spam the board with your agenda-fueled threads.

Meh... when Lebron's "high efficiency pursuit" approach to the game and his team got exploited and exposed in the 2014 Finals, it was something that I had predicted all season...

Nonetheless, the media and Lebron fans shoved it down my throat that he was on MJ's level and would 3-peat to prove it... So they deserve to have their nose rubbed in it.

And now we have more data from the 90's and 80's... invariably, it only provides further proof...

Don't worry, once the season starts, I'll shift my focus to Kobe and Durant...

[Smoke117]

I truly think OP believes bron is as good as mj. There's no way he can constantly compare the two if he didnt believe bron was at least on mj's level. No one seriously says lebron is better or even on mj's level. Yet OP still continues to beleabour the same point that no one disagrees with.

Uh...he is. Jordan is so good now apparently no one is on his level? He's just a man and a really good player. If you truly believe this you are a bigger ****ing idiot than he is. Is Jordan better? Of course. Is he so much better that he's on a different tier? Of Course not.

[LBJ 23]

I truly think OP believes bron is as good as mj. There's no way he can constantly compare the two if he didnt believe bron was at least on mj's level. No one seriously says lebron is better or even on mj's level. Yet OP still continues to belabour the same point that no one even disagrees with.

Yep, it's like OP deep down thinks Lebron is as good as Jordan and that's why he's spamming the board with all these comparison threads and posts. It's like he desperately tries to convince himself and others(there is no need, majority of non troll posters will tell you MJ is the GOAT).

I mean other than Dragic and his alts(who's trolling anyway), who is really saying that Lebron is as good as Jordan or even better?

[Warfan]

Uh...he is. Jordan is so good now apparently no one is on his level? He's just a man and a really good player. If you truly believe this you are a bigger ****ing idiot than he is. Is Jordan better? Of course. Is he so much better that he's on a different tier? Of Course not.

I didnt say no one is on his level, wilt/russell/kareem are imo. Bron's a tier below those guys (which is still great of course), they're not far and away superior to him at all but id disagree if you want to put him up there with mike.

[iamgine]

Miami was built around LEbron... bosh turned into a floor-spreader for him and Wade had to play off-ball a ton.

To a much less degree than Cleveland as evidenced by Lebron's number drop.

[moe94]

Uh...he is. Jordan is so good now apparently no one is on his level? He's just a man and a really good player. If you truly believe this you are a bigger ****ing idiot than he is. Is Jordan better? Of course. Is he so much better that he's on a different tier? Of Course not.

Michael Jordan is the greatest human being of all time. Let's be real, he's the greatest being of all time, real or fictional.

[Smoke117]

Michael Jordan is the greatest human being of all time. Let's be real, he's the greatest being of all time, real or fictional.

The biggest fukcing asshole of all time, maybe. I really don't get all this hero worship for a guy who is complete and utter sewer waste as a human being.

[moe94]

The biggest fukcing asshole of all time, maybe. I really don't get all this hero worship for a guy who is complete and utter sewer waste as a human being.

Michael Jordan did you dirty like Chamillionaire or what?