Bellamy vs. Wilt Career H2H's

[LAZERUSS]

70-71 season.

Bellamy averaged 14.7 ppg, 12.9 rpg, and shot .493 against the NBA.
Chamberlain, less than a year removed from major knee surgery, and now 34 years old, averaged 20.7 ppg, 18.3 rpg, and shot .545 against the league. Arguably the worst season in Wilt's career.

5 H2H's:

Bellamy: 14.4 ppg, 15.5 rpg (4 known games) and no known FG% games.
Wilt: 19.8 ppg, 22.4 rpg, .443 FG%.

Not much to write home about. Neither player played well against each other, but Wilt was playing on a surgically repaired knee.

[LAZERUSS]

71-72 season.

Bellamy had a resurgance, and averaged 18.6 ppg, 12.8 rpg, and shot a career high .545 from the field.
Chamberlain averaged 14.8 ppg, 19.2 rpg, and shot .649 from the floor against the NBA.

5 H2H's:

Bellamy: 20.0 ppg, 15.0 rpg, and .424 FG%
Wilt: 13.4 ppg, 17.6 rpg, and on a .614 FG%

Chamberlain's defense against Bellamy continued to be impressive. In a season in which Bellamy shot .545 against the NBA, in all of his H2H's with Wilt... a .424 FG%.

[iamgine]

He may have been a relatively poor defender, but at his peak, Bellamy was plastering a prime Russell on the offensive end.

Offense was very good obviously. Defense though, not relatively poor but just plain terrible. So terrible that "relatively poor" can be seen as a huge praise.

Now this is just what I heard.

[LAZERUSS]

72-73.

Wilt's last season.

Bellamy averaged 16.1 ppg, 13.0 rpg, and shot .505 against the NBA.
Wilt averaged 13.2 ppg, 18.6 rpg, and shot .727 from the field against the league.

4 H2H's:

Bellamy: 17.0 ppg, 18.0 rpg (2 known games), .400 FG% (2 known games.)
Wilt: 9.8 ppg, 20.5 rpg, and on a .593 FG%.


And as a side-note:

In his LAST season:

Chamberlain, at age 36, and in his LAST season vs the best centers in the league:


Vs. Cowens in 4 H2H's:

Cowens: 31.3 ppg, 19.8 rpg, .454 FG%

Wilt: 14.3 ppg, 14.5 rpg, .588 FG%



vs. Reed in 3 regular season H2H's:

Reed: 12.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, .471 FG%

Wilt: 6.3 ppg, 23.3 rpg, .529 FG%

vs. Reed in 5 Finals' H2H's:

Reed: 16.4 ppg, 9.2 rpg, .493 FG%

Wilt: 11.6 ppg, 18.6 rpg, .525 FG%


vs. Bellamy in 4 H2H's:

Bellamy: 17.0 ppg, 18.0 rpg ( 2 known games), .400 FG% (2 known game)

Wilt: 9.8 ppg, 20.5 rpg, .593 FG%


vs. Unseld in 4 H2H's:

Unseld: 12.8 ppg, 15.3 rpg, .481 FG%

Wilt: 12.8 ppg, 20.8 rpg, .769 FG%


vs. McAdoo in 4 H2H's:

McAdoo: 16.8 ppg, 8.8 rpg, .450 FG% (3 known games)

Wilt: 20.5 ppg, 21.3 rpg, .850 FG%


vs. Thurmond in 7 regular season H2H's:

Thurmond: 12.3 ppg, 21.6 rpg, .315 FG%

Wilt: 5.1 ppg, 16.6 rpg, .684 FG%

vs. Thurmond in 5 playoff H2H's:

Thurmond: 15.8 ppg, 17.2 rpg, .373 FG%

Wilt: 7.0 ppg, 23.6 rpg, .611 FG%


vs. Lanier in 6 H2H's:

Lanier: 21.2 ppg, 13.4 rpg (5 known games), .374 FG% (5 known games)

Wilt: 19.8 ppg, 16.3 rpg, .764 FG%



vs. Kareem in 6 H2H's:

Kareem: 29.5 ppg, 17.8 rpg, .450 FG%

Wilt: 11.0 ppg, 16.0 rpg, .737 FG%

[LAZERUSS]

Chamberlain's dominance of Bellamy was just unfathomable. And it was over the course of 12 seasons and 99 career H2H games.

Arguably the most dominant career by all-time great center against another.

[LAZERUSS]

Hopefully nbaststats will continue to update the boxscores of the 60's. In any case, what we now know for sure, was that Wilt was just an overwhelming defender. In his known H2H's with a Bellamy who was among the best offensive players of the 60's, he DRAMATICALLY lowered his efficiency...just as he would Thurmond, Russell, and later Kareem and Lanier.

A mid-60's Wilt was probably the greatest one-on-one defensive center in NBA history (and I think Thurmond was second BTW...and both ahead of Russell.) And he was certainly the greatest "rim-protector" of all-time, as well.

[LAZERUSS]

In his '67 season, Bellamy shot .521 against the NBA.
Against Wilt? .449

In his '68 season, Bellamy shot .541 against the NBA.
Against Wilt in his regular season H2H's... .451. And against Wilt in his six playoff games... .421.

In his '69 season, Bellamy shot .510 against the NBA.
Against Wilt? .433

In his '72 season, Bellamy shot .545 against the NBA.
Against Wilt? .424.

And in his '73 season, Bellamy shot .505 against the NBA.
Against Wilt? .400.


And those are not "cherry-picked" games, either, but every KNOWN game we have.

I'll post the Russell-Wilt, Reed-Wilt, and Thurmond-Wilt H2H's from the 60's sometime tomorrow. Just an absolute BLANKET on those guys.

[LAZERUSS]

Chamberlain's H2H defense throughout his career...

How about against Russell in all of their known H2H games?

'59-60: Russell shot .467 against the NBA.
11 Regular season H2H's against Wilt: .393
6 Playoff games against Wilt: .446

'60-61: Russell shot .426 against the NBA.
13 regular season H2H's against Wilt: .398

'61-62: Russell shot .457 against the NBA.
10 regular season games against Wilt: .383
7 Playoff H2H's against Wilt: .399

'62-63: Russell shot .432 against the NBA.
3 known regular season H2H games against Wilt: .366

'63-64: Russell shot .433 against the NBA.
6 known Regular season H2Hs against Wilt: .388
5 Finals H2Hs against Wilt: .386

'64-65: Russell shot .438 against the NBA.
10 known regular season H2Hs against Wilt: .281 (yes, .281!)
7 playoff games against Wilt: .447

'65-66: Russell shot .415 against the NBA.
All 9 H2Hs against Wilt: .301 (again... .301!)
5 Playoff games against Wilt: .424

'66-67: Russell shot .454 against the NBA.
8 known regular season H2Hs against Wilt: .425
5 Playoff H2Hs against Wilt: .358

'67-68: Russell shot .425 against the NBA.
All 8 of their regular season H2Hs against Wilt: .279 (yep... .279!)
7 Playoff H2Hs against Wilt: .440

'68-69: Russell shot .433 against the NBA.
All 6 regular season H2H's against Wilt: .340
7 H2Hs in the Finals against Wilt: .397


There you have it. All KNOWN H2H games against Wilt. Again, this was not some "cherry-picked" stat, either.

Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Once again, in the KNOWN H2H games (ALL of them), Chamberlain DRAMATICALLY reduced the efficiencies of Bellamy and Russell. And Bellamy was a true offensive force in the 60's, particularly the first-half of the decade, and before he joined Willis Reed.

Now, how about the KNOWN H2H's with Nate Thurmond?

In Nate's 65-66 season, he shot .406 against the NBA.
In his three known H2H's with Chamberlain... .382.

In Thurmond's 66-67 season, he shot .437 against the NBA.
In his three known regular season H2Hs with Wilt... .308.
In all six of their Finals' H2H's... .343

In his 67-68 season, Thurmond shot .411 against the NBA.
In his known two games against Wilt... .343.

In his 68-69 season, Nate shot .410 against the NBA.
In his two known regular season H2H's with Wilt... .431.
In his six playoff H2H's with Wilt... .392.

In his 71-72 season, Nate shot .432 against the NBA.
In all six games against Wilt... .348.

In his 72-73 season, Thurmond shot .446 against the NBA.
In all seven of their regular season H2Hs against Wilt... .315
In all five of his playoff H2Hs with Wilt... .373.

Again...DRAMATIC declines...


Oh, and how about his H2H's with Kareem?

69-70: Kareem shot .518 against the NBA.
In his one H2H with Wilt... .429

70-71: Kareem shot .577 against the NBA.
In his five regular season H2H's against Wilt... .438.
In his five playoff H2Hs against Wilt... .481

71-72: Kareem shot .574 against the NBA.
In his five regular season H2H's with Wilt... .500
In his six playoff H2Hs with Wilt... .457 (including .414 in the last four games)

72-73: Kareem shot .554 against the NBA.
In his six regular season H2Hs against Wilt... .450.


HUGE drop....

[dankok8]

We have no FG% for Bellamy from 1961-1966 and those are the years he scored >20 ppg. Wilt stymied him in years Bells wasn't even a scorer but we can only guess what happened before. I'm sure the data will come out eventually.

[LAZERUSS]

We have no FG% for Bellamy from 1961-1966 and those are the years he scored >20 ppg. Wilt stymied him in years Bells wasn't even a scorer but we can only guess what happened before. I'm sure the data will come out eventually.

A typical "basher" response. Bellamy was an offensive FORCE in the entire decade of the 60's. And he was certainly an EFFICIENT force (as was Kareem.) And yet, he couldn't the hit the broadside of barn against Wilt in the KNOWN H2H's.

And that is what really amazes me. Guys like you will claim "cherry-picking", and yet, in the KNOWN games we have... ALL of them... Chamberlain was reducing his HOF counterparts to WAY below their normal FG%'s...including your boy Kareem (10% below his career FG% in his entire career against Chamberlain.)

You were quick to point out Lanier's 71-72 season against Wilt (BTW, that entire topic was designed as an "anti-Wilt" slap), but then you ignored Chamberlain completely SHUTTING Lanier down the very next season.

Chamberlain was quite likely, the greatest "one-on-one" defensive center of all-time. Even Russell was not his equal. I suspect that only Thurmond might have been on his level, and we both know that Nate was not the rim-protector, or team defender, that Wilt was.

[LAZERUSS]

We have no FG% for Bellamy from 1961-1966 and those are the years he scored >20 ppg. Wilt stymied him in years Bells wasn't even a scorer but we can only guess what happened before. I'm sure the data will come out eventually.

BTW, Bellamy gave Russell just as much trouble offensively, as he did Wilt. And he had seasons in which he outrebounded Russell, as well.

In Bellamy's BEST season, he completely outplayed Russell. In that same season, Chamberlain DESTROYED Bellamy (and Russell as well.)

[dankok8]

A typical "basher" response. Bellamy was an offensive FORCE in the entire decade of the 60's. And he was certainly an EFFICIENT force (as was Kareem.) And yet, he couldn't the hit the broadside of barn against Wilt in the KNOWN H2H's.

And that is what really amazes me. Guys like you will claim "cherry-picking", and yet, in the KNOWN games we have... ALL of them... Chamberlain was reducing his HOF counterparts to WAY below their normal FG%'s...including your boy Kareem (10% below his career FG% in his entire career against Chamberlain.)

You were quick to point out Lanier's 71-72 season against Wilt (BTW, that entire topic was designed as an "anti-Wilt" slap), but then you ignored Chamberlain completely SHUTTING Lanier down the very next season.

Chamberlain was quite likely, the greatest "one-on-one" defensive center of all-time. Even Russell was not his equal. I suspect that only Thurmond might have been on his level, and we both know that Nate was not the rim-protector, or team defender, that Wilt was.

BTW, Bellamy gave Russell just as much trouble offensively, as he did Wilt. And he had seasons in which he outrebounded Russell, as well.

In Bellamy's BEST season, he completely outplayed Russell. In that same season, Chamberlain DESTROYED Bellamy (and Russell as well.)

I didn't accuse you of cherry-picking. You simply posted the data that we have. I was just pointing out how we're missing the FG% from the most informative years. I mean who really cares what Bellamy was shooting when he was scoring under 20 ppg and wasn't even near his peak form.

I'd be the first to tell you that despite Lanier's monster production against Wilt in 1971-1972 that he was still outplayed. Wilt ruined Lanier in their H2H's and I never claimed otherwise.

Wilt didn't destroy Russell in the 1962 EDF. An argument can be made for both sides to be honest.

[LAZERUSS]

I didn't accuse you of cherry-picking. You simply posted the data that we have. I was just pointing out how we're missing the FG% from the most informative years. I mean who really cares what Bellamy was shooting when he was scoring under 20 ppg and wasn't even near his peak form.

I'd be the first to tell you that despite Lanier's monster production against Wilt in 1971-1972 that he was still outplayed. Wilt ruined Lanier in their H2H's and I never claimed otherwise.

Wilt didn't destroy Russell in the 1962 EDF. An argument can be made for both sides to be honest.

Bellamy shot .541 from the field in his 67-68 season. Against Wilt in their regular season H2H's... .451. And against Wilt in their post-season H2H's... .421.

In his 71-72 season, Bellamy shot a career high .545 from the field (and also averaged 18.6 ppg BTW.) Against Wilt in their regular season H2H's... .424.


And yes, Wilt wiped the floor with Russell in the '62 EDF's. He murdered him in ppg, outrebounded him; and outshot from the field by a huge margin. Not only that, but he took a FAR worse roster, that generally played even worse, to within two points of beating the HOF-laden 60-20 Celtics. BTW, find me a game in that series in which Russell outscored Wilt by a 42-9 margin, while outrebounding him in that same game, 37-20, and outshooting him from the field by a 16-31 to 4-14 margin.

[Papaya Petee]

So what you're saying is a 6'5 Bellamy who was a poor defender kept Wilt around his season averages almost every year?
Or are you saying a 7 foot Wilt who was a "elite" defender allowed someone 7 inches smaller and god knows how many pounds lighter to drop 25/17 on a regular basis?