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  1. #76
    NBA All-star chazzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Kobe Bryant ( year by year TOP 10 rankings ) you decide

    Quote Originally Posted by RoundMoundOfReb
    I never made a purely stat based case for Melo being better.

    However, adjusting for pace:

    Melo: 30.5 ppg, with 2.7 apg
    Kobe: 27 ppg with 6 apg
    Melo's play style is ideal in a slower paced, isolation style anyway though.. you can't just crank up the pace and expect linear production. We actually just saw him on the 5th fastest team with D'antoni the year before and he was worse.

  2. #77
    Top 1 Bball Mind.
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    Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Kobe Bryant ( year by year TOP 10 rankings ) you decide

    Quote Originally Posted by chazzy
    Melo's play style is ideal in a slower paced, isolation style anyway though.. you can't just crank up the pace and expect linear production
    Yes but you do realize that if the Knicks play at a certain pace it is = the average of the pace the opposing team played against them. Thus it reduces the opposing teams pace as well. So Melo's actual scoring impact is linearly higher.

    Example:

    Player A plays at pace of 50.
    Player B plays at pace of 100

    Player A scores 20 ppg
    Player B scores 30 ppg

    Well you're probably right in that Player A's scoring wouldn't progress linearly to 40 ppg at 100 pace, but that's still what his scoring impact is equivalent to.

  3. #78
    Laker Nation riseagainst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Kobe Bryant ( year by year TOP 10 rankings ) you decide

    Quote Originally Posted by RoundMoundOfReb
    Yes but you do realize that if the Knicks play at a certain pace it is = the average of the pace the opposing team played against them. Thus it reduces the opposing teams pace as well. So Melo's actual scoring impact is linearly higher.

    Example:

    Player A plays at pace of 50.
    Player B plays at pace of 100

    Player A scores 20 ppg
    Player B scores 30 ppg

    Well you're probably right in that Player A's scoring wouldn't progress linearly to 40 ppg at 100 pace, but that's still what his scoring impact is equivalent to.
    but why do all the hypotheticals and projections? Why not just compare what they ACTUALLY did?

  4. #79
    NBA All-star chazzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Kobe Bryant ( year by year TOP 10 rankings ) you decide

    Quote Originally Posted by RoundMoundOfReb
    Yes but you do realize that if the Knicks play at a certain pace it is = the average of the pace the opposing team played against them. Thus it reduces the opposing teams pace as well. So Melo's actual scoring impact is linearly higher.

    Example:

    Player A plays at pace of 50.
    Player B plays at pace of 100

    Player A scores 20 ppg
    Player B scores 30 ppg

    Well you're probably right in that Player A's scoring wouldn't progress linearly to 40 ppg at 100 pace, but that's still what his scoring impact is equivalent to.
    I understand what pace is and how to adjust for pace. You're looking at this in purely mathematical terms. Melo's game is best suited in a slower paced system in which he's allowed to take his time creating a shot for himself. In the year before, 2012, he played with D'Antoni and was on the 5th fastest team in the league, and his numbers were significantly worse. So no, you cannot linearly adjust Melo's numbers by pace.

  5. #80
    ... on a leash ArbitraryWater's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Kobe Bryant ( year by year TOP 10 rankings ) you decide

    I don't think Melo's defense was as bad that year... I also don't believe he was a cancer as teammate.

    I don't know how you can struggle so damn much with Howard (Hurt but still Dwight Howard, borderline all-star), Gasol, Nash (Who was hurt, but put up the same #'s as in his previous Suns season where they earned him an all-star selection)...

    Those pieces should actually fit very well on together on a Basketball court as well.

    As long as you allow Nash to handle the ball, give Dwight touches and shots, (Gasol was misused by the Coach), and have Kobe drop an efficient 25 while playing DEFENSE....

    They had a losing record in the games they played together, too.

  6. #81
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    Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Kobe Bryant ( year by year TOP 10 rankings ) you decide

    Quote Originally Posted by riseagainst
    but why do all the hypotheticals and projections? Why not just compare what they ACTUALLY did?
    So you think the impact of Elgin baylor's 37-14 is equivalent impact wise to somebody doing that with today's pace?
    Last edited by RoundMoundOfReb; 11-19-2014 at 04:40 PM.

  7. #82
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    Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Kobe Bryant ( year by year TOP 10 rankings ) you decide

    Quote Originally Posted by chazzy
    I understand what pace is and how to adjust for pace. You're looking at this in purely mathematical terms. Melo's game is best suited in a slower paced system in which he's allowed to take his time creating a shot for himself. In the year before, 2012, he played with D'Antoni and was on the 5th fastest team in the league, and his numbers were significantly worse. So no, you cannot linearly adjust Melo's numbers by pace.
    Except I'm not literally saying he would score 30.5 ppg with D'antoni. I'm saying the impact of his scoring on that pace is equivalent to that.

  8. #83
    NBA Legend and Hall of Famer Smoke117's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Kobe Bryant ( year by year TOP 10 rankings ) you decide

    Quote Originally Posted by ArbitraryWater
    I just started reading but 2000 Kobe better than 2000 Grant Hill is the first
    Kobe over Hill and Zo made me bust out laughing. Mourning was a top 2-3 player in the league in 2000 along with Shaq and Duncan. (likely 2nd in the league after Shaq. He was peaking.) I doubt this fool even saw him play in 2000. Kobe's at the bottom of a top 10 in 2000 below Malone, Garnett, Kidd etc.
    Last edited by Smoke117; 11-19-2014 at 05:20 PM.

  9. #84
    NBA lottery pick
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    Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Kobe Bryant ( year by year TOP 10 rankings ) you decide

    So let me get this skraight, Duncan has similar accolades to Kobe because he had elite help his entire career, but yet Kobe is the one who had a top 5 player in the league alongside him half of his career? And Duncan rarely even had anyone in the top 10 alongside him in his career? Straight up trolling. No idea how you're not banned yet.



    Then to top it off, Kobe only started appearing higher on the rankings after Duncan was well out of his prime and Kobe entered his. C'mon, son. Not to mention, we got stans in here cherry picking stats and listing only points/assists/TS% for Kobe instead of also listing rebounds, defensive rating, FG%, etc.



    No shame whatsoever.

  10. #85
    Laker Nation riseagainst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Kobe Bryant ( year by year TOP 10 rankings ) you decide

    Quote Originally Posted by RoundMoundOfReb
    So you think the impact of Elgin baylor's 37-14 is equivalent impact wise to somebody doing that with today's pace?
    that was decades ago. With inferior competition. But you just "adjusted for pace" for 2 players from the same year in the same league at the same time. That's so desperate. Nice red herring though.

  11. #86
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    Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Kobe Bryant ( year by year TOP 10 rankings ) you decide

    Quote Originally Posted by riseagainst
    that was decades ago. With inferior competition. But you just "adjusted for pace" for 2 players from the same year in the same league at the same time. That's so desperate. Nice red herring though.
    No it isn't. I've already explained why I adjusted for pace. Read it.

  12. #87
    I don't get picked last at the park anymore
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    Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Kobe Bryant ( year by year TOP 10 rankings ) you decide

    Quote Originally Posted by STATUTORY
    and there ain't no way that a cuckold is making my personal top 5
    so your not a serious basketball fan, good to know.

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