How good was John Stockton? Was he overrated, underrated or about right?

[Sarcastic]

after watching Deron all his career, and watching Stockton almost all his career, I can say with certainty there isn't a case to be made for Deron over Stockton. He's more athletic. Has better handles in terms of using them to score, but does nothing else better, or even relatively close in most facets.

If Deron played with Malone for his whole career, he would be considered the best PG ever.

[Jacks3]

How is he overrated when the only things you hear when people talk about him is that he couldn't take over games, his assist numbers are inflated, he didn't have a great peak, he was lucky to play with Malone, etc etc. He's actually underrated. It seems to me that people focus too much on his negatives, but don't seem as willing to give him props for all the great qualities he had.

[Sarcastic]

How is he overrated when the only things you hear when people talk about him is that he couldn't take over games, his assist numbers are inflated, he didn't have a great peak, he was lucky to play with Malone, etc etc. He's actually underrated. It seems to me that people focus too much on his negatives, but don't seem as willing to give him props for all the great qualities he had.

Check out his MVP award shares. He finished in the top 10 three times in his career. He wasn't that well regarded in his prime. He was a compiler, and put up great total stats.

That doesn't make him better than players like Frazier nor Isiah who were lead teams to titles.

[magnax1]

better playmaker

Sorry to say that isn't even remotely true. Deron can't do so many thinks that Stockton was capable of. He can't thread it through tight spaces like Stockton (and he constantly tries to leading to a lot of turnovers) He doesn't have anywhere near the same ability to run an offense efficiently. He isn't anywhere near the pick and roll player, and I could go on and on. The single area I'd deem them equals in terms of play making is on the break, where Deron shines as much as anyone in the league. Deron isn't even the best passer today though so don't try and compare him to someone who probably is the best passer ever.

a good man defender

He's an alright man defender. Good is pushing it. His defensive value comes from his defensive rotations, but he struggles against the quickest of point guards. He's average in terms of man defense, good in terms of team defense.

better rebounder.

And for point guards that has little meaning. He's probably averaged something like 1 more rebound a game for his career.

i dont know how anyone could take stockton over deron. he'd average 12 odd assists playing with malone, be a much bigger threat at scoring and is a solid defender.

Well none of that is even close to true.

[magnax1]

If Deron played with Malone for his whole career, he would be considered the best PG ever.

Malone was extremely reliant on Stockton for scoring, especially early in his career. Even though he improved later on, his stats went down considerably the year Stockton had surgery on his knee. Malone was much more reliant on Stockton then the other way around.

[D.J.]

Malone was able to rely a little less on Stockton once he developed a jump shot. Up until around '93, Malone had no jump shot. He depended on Stockton. Malone developing a nice 15 footer extended his career. Stockton could have gone on another team and done well because of his high ball IQ, good defense, his ability to find the open man, and good outside shooter. Malone would have held his own simply because of his strength and post skills, but wouldn't have done nearly as well.

[Sarcastic]

Malone was extremely reliant on Stockton for scoring, especially early in his career. Even though he improved later on, his stats went down considerably the year Stockton had surgery on his knee. Malone was much more reliant on Stockton then the other way around.

Bullshit and 2X MVP says otherwise.

[magnax1]

Bullshit and 2X MVP says otherwise.

Anybody who watched them during the early 90's knows it's true. You only need to look one post above yours who's saying the exact same thing I am. Malone was not some self sufficient scorer who you could drop it down to like Kareem.

[D.J.]

Bullshit and 2X MVP says otherwise.

And oddly enough, his MVP's didn't come until after he developed that jump shot.

[Sarcastic]

Anybody who watched them during the early 90's knows it's true. You only need to look one post above yours who's saying the exact same thing I am. Malone was not some self sufficient scorer who you could drop it down to like Kareem.

Malone >>> Stockton.

Who else was John gonna pass to all those years to rack up those assists? Mark Eaton?

[Nero Tulip]

Well after this thread it's pretty clear he's massively underrated.

[magnax1]

Malone >>> Stockton.

Who else was John gonna pass to all those years to rack up those assists? Mark Eaton?

What exactly does that even mean? How is that some sort of point that proves Stockton was over rated?

[knickswin]

How is he overrated when the only things you hear when people talk about him is that he couldn't take over games, his assist numbers are inflated, he didn't have a great peak, he was lucky to play with Malone, etc etc. He's actually underrated. It seems to me that people focus too much on his negatives, but don't seem as willing to give him props for all the great qualities he had.

I don't think he was bad or anything like that in fact in some areas he was great, but some people would say he's the second best pg of all time and i'm not down with that. He just wasnt that good. I dont think Malone was the second greatest power forward of all time either. They were too good to be called "system players," but they were definitely aided by the system.

[D.J.]

Malone >>> Stockton.

Who else was John gonna pass to all those years to rack up those assists? Mark Eaton?

Thurl Bailey was putting up close to 20 a night. Jeff Malone was putting up close to 20 a night. Darrell Griffith was hitting double digits, as was Blue Edwards. Jeff Hornacek arrived and was putting up around 15 a night. Malone wasn't his only passing option.

[Friday]

He is certainly closer to overrated than underrated.