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Old 05-10-2019, 12:24 AM   #31
3ball
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Default Re: 1st option rings - what accomplishment is bigger? It's the best GOAT argument

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Originally Posted by Smoke117
GOAT D at the SG position and GOAT at the Center position are two very different things you clown which you are well aware of. You just like twisting shit to make MJ look much better than he was. The fact of the matter is, like I said before, Jordan didn't even have 1/10th of the defensive impact a Ben Wallace had. As I've said millions of times, CONTEXT is basically allergic to you. That's beside the point that Ben wallace was neither better than Hakeem or David Robinson at D at the Center position in the first place. At his peak and prime I do have him 3rd for the modern NBA, though.
All MJ can do is be the goat defender at his position and provide goat inspiration and example to his teammates...

He's much closer to Wallace/Russell defensively than they are to his offense

And you didn't even think Russell averaged 9 ppg ever, remember? Now I showed you 2 Finals where he was carried on offense, so you move the goal posts.. and he had other Finals with 11 and 13 ppg
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:26 AM   #32
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Default Re: 1st option rings - what accomplishment is bigger? It's the best GOAT argument

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Originally Posted by 3ball
All MJ can do is be the goat defender at his position and provide goat inspiration and example to his teammates...

He's much closer to Wallace/Russell defensively than they are to his offense

And you didn't even think Russell averaged 9 ppg ever, remember? Now I showed you 2 Finals where he was carried on offense, so you move the goal posts.. and he had other Finals with 11 and 13 ppg

Not really. They are not close to what he is offensively and he isn't close to them defensively. You can obsess about the meter, but it changes nothing.
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:26 AM   #33
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Default Re: 1st option rings - what accomplishment is bigger? It's the best GOAT argument

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Originally Posted by FKAri
Winning a ring for Cleveland. CLEVELAND!
Winning a ring for Chicago was equally rare and monumental

Chick Hearn:
"Who were the Bulls before MJ got there?.. Cows"
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:27 AM   #34
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Default Re: 1st option rings - what accomplishment is bigger? It's the best GOAT argument

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Averaging 9 ppg twice IS a lot... And 11 and 13 various other times

Imagine if lebron did that.. you're just using a double standard to degrade MJ

If twice is "a lot" what about a 1-9 frequency rate?

That would be THREE 1st round exits

Jordan lost in the first round A LOT

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Old 05-10-2019, 12:28 AM   #35
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Default Re: 1st option rings - what accomplishment is bigger? It's the best GOAT argument

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Originally Posted by Smoke117
Not really. They are not close to he is offensively and he isn't close to them defensively. You can obsess about the meter, but it changes nothing.
MJ was one of the best defenders in the league

Russell/Wallace were nowhere near the best offensive players in the league

You bias is making you look real dumb
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:31 AM   #36
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Default Re: 1st option rings - what accomplishment is bigger? It's the best GOAT argument

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Originally Posted by TheCorporation
If twice is "a lot" what about a 1-9 frequency rate?

That would be THREE 1st round exits

Jordan lost in the first round A LOT

Got em'
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:32 AM   #37
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Default Re: 1st option rings - what accomplishment is bigger? It's the best GOAT argument

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Originally Posted by 3ball
MJ was one of the best defenders in the league

Russell/Wallace were nowhere near the best offensive players in the league

You bias is making you look real dumb
93 opponent FG % rank 15
94 opponent FG % rank 12

Their defense actually got better with Pete Myers
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:40 AM   #38
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Default Re: 1st option rings - what accomplishment is bigger? It's the best GOAT argument

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Originally Posted by bigkingsfan
93 opponent FG % rank 15
94 opponent FG % rank 12

Their defense actually got better without MJ
Bulls bullshitted the regular season in 93' to prepare for the goat accomplishment of the modern era (3-peat).. they only won 57 games just like the Warriors this yr

This is common knowledge

But I'll respond more directly to your post - MJ improved the bulls' offense from 14th in the league (94') to #2 all-time (91-93'), without any drop-off in defensive rank (4th, 7th, 4th from 91-93', versus 6th in 94')

Teams have a FINITE amount of energy to expend on both ends and improvements on one end take away from the other... But MJ is the goat 2-way player, so his presence allowed vast offensive improvement with no drop-off on D.. ..
.

Last edited by 3ball : 05-10-2019 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:44 AM   #39
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Default Re: 1st option rings - what accomplishment is bigger? It's the best GOAT argument

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Originally Posted by 3ball
Bulls bullshitted the regular season in 93' to prepare for the goat accomplishment of the modern era (3-peat).. they only won 57 games just like the Warriors this yr

This is common knowledge

But I'll respond more directly to your post - MJ improved the bulls' offense from 14th in the league (94') to #2 all-time (91-93'), without any drop-off in defensive rank (4th, 7th, 4th from 91-93', versus 6th in 94')

Teams have a FINITE amount of energy to expend on both ends and improvements on one end take away from the other... But MJ is the goat 2-way player, so his presence allowed cast offensive improvement with no drop-off on D.. ..
They were also #13 in 91 babyboi.
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:46 AM   #40
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Default Re: 1st option rings - what accomplishment is bigger? It's the best GOAT argument

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Originally Posted by bigkingsfan
They were also #13 in 91 babyboi.
2ball fudging stats yet again
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:55 AM   #41
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Default Re: 1st option rings - what accomplishment is bigger? It's the best GOAT argument

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Originally Posted by bigkingsfan
They were also #13 in 91 babyboi.
Bulls' defense ranked 4th, 7th, and 4th in 91-93'

So no drop-off from 1994 (6th)

despite improvement from #14 on offense (94') to #1 in 91/92' and 2nd in 93'.. the 92' offense was #2 all-time

So wtf are you talking about 13th?.. you made that up to derail or because you have no response

So again, teams have a FINITE amount of energy to expend on both ends - improvements on one end take away from the other... But MJ is the goat 2-way player, so his presence allowed vast offensive improvement with no drop-off on D.... MJ enabled a 2-way team.. ..
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:59 AM   #42
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Default Re: 1st option rings - what accomplishment is bigger? It's the best GOAT argument

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Originally Posted by 3ball
Bulls' defense ranked 4th, 7th, and 4th in 91-93'

So no drop-off from 1994 (6th)

despite improvement from #14 on offense (94') to #1 in 91/92' and 2nd in 93'.. the 92' offense was #2 all-time

So wtf are you talking about 13th?.. you made that up to derail or because you have no response

So again, teams have a FINITE amount of energy to expend on both ends - improvements on one end take away from the other... But MJ is the goat 2-way player, so his presence allowed vast offensive improvement with no drop-off on D.... MJ enabled a 2-way team.. ..


The Bulls were 7th in '93 and 6th in '94. Not to mention the FACT that they were 2nd in '95. You truly are on massive idiot.
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:01 AM   #43
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Default Re: 1st option rings - what accomplishment is bigger? It's the best GOAT argument

What does first option mean? The criterion is suspect. Undervalues terrific playmakers, defenders, and those with a more unique skill set. Unsurprising the one pushing this criterion is a Jordan fan.

Last edited by Stephonit : 05-10-2019 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:02 AM   #44
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Default Re: 1st option rings - what accomplishment is bigger? It's the best GOAT argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigkingsfan
93 opponent FG % rank 15
94 opponent FG % rank 12

Their defense actually got better with Pete Myers


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Old 05-10-2019, 01:04 AM   #45
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Default Re: 1st option rings - what accomplishment is bigger? It's the best GOAT argument

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Originally Posted by Vino24
Got em'

He is BIG shook

Which basically means he is slowly starting to realize that LeBron is the greatest. I knew this day would come where he would finally accept it and I know it wouldn't be pretty
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